The Road to Inclusive Planning: DJ Jeyaram on Trusts and Special Needs

Eric Brotman [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Don’t Retire, Graduate, the podcast that asks you what you wanna be when you grow up so you can graduate into retirement with a purpose and a passion. I’m your host and valedictorian, Eric Brotman. And after nearly 200 episodes and a year long hiatus, don’t retire. Graduate is back for season six. We’ll be bringing you interviews with amazing guests every other Thursday. And on alternating weeks, we’re hosting a new segment called diary of a financial advisor, which we know you’ll all enjoy. So please subscribe and check out our new episodes every Thursday. Today, I am pleased to be joined by mister DJ Jeyaram.

Eric Brotman [00:00:37]:
He shifted his law firm’s focus to helping families with special needs in 02/2009, when his son was diagnosed with a rare genetic condition, DJ specializes in special needs, trusts, wills, guardianships, conservatorships, and appealing Katie Beckett, and now comp denials, which I confess DJ, I had to look up so that this is gonna be educational for me, as well as for our audience prior to establishing his own practice, DJ was with large firms, healthcare groups. In addition, his experience includes serving as deputy director for legal services with the Georgia department of community health and as Georgia administrative law judge with the office of state administrative hearings. In his role as administrative law judge, DJ presided over Katie Beckett and now comp hearings, and he’s currently a sitting judge in Gwinnett County, Georgia. DJ, welcome to the show.

DJ Jeyaram [00:01:25]:
Thanks for having me.

Eric Brotman [00:01:27]:
This is, this is a very interesting topic and one that I think doesn’t get nearly enough attention. And when you and I spoke a couple of weeks ago, because we, we have some clients in common and some work we were doing together, your story just moved me so much that I was hoping you’d be comfortable to share it with our audience and hopefully to bring light to something really important. So would you be comfortable sharing your story personally with us first, and then we can talk about ways that families impacted by some special needs planning can can take action?

DJ Jeyaram [00:02:00]:
Sure. As you mentioned, my son, Kai, was born in 02/2009. He was born with a condition called Williams syndrome, which is a genetic deletion, and then a few years later, had an autism diagnosis. And so as my wife and I were going through the process of grappling with he was our first child. So grappling with the diagnosis emotionally, practically, a lot of information is thrown at you. You know, a lot of people saying you need this, you need to do this, you need to look into this. And we ran down that road, and we did all those things. And then without really realizing what we were doing.

DJ Jeyaram [00:02:40]:
And so when life calmed down a little bit and we had a special needs trust put in place, by a very reputable, firm here in town. Once it was in place, I went to that attorney and said, look, now that life has calmed down, can you please explain to me how this works? What does it do? How does it help me? And, that attorney really wasn’t able to answer those questions. And so I kind of got to the point where I said, look. You know, once I learned what it does and how it helps, I said, look, I need to give this information to families in an understandable way. And so that started the, very slow pivot from what was a health care corporate and regulatory practice into a special needs estate planning practice.

Eric Brotman [00:03:31]:
So you’ve been practicing law how long? Twenty, thirty years?

DJ Jeyaram [00:03:35]:
Twenty seven years.

Eric Brotman [00:03:37]:
Okay. So we’re we’re contemporaries. And, and over the thirty years or so that I’ve been in practice, we’ve helped, a number of families with special needs issues, but I dare not say that we’re experts on the subject and we’ve always needed to counsel with law firms and attorneys with special needs backgrounds. And to your point earlier, a lot of folks say that they have these, these specialties, but not everybody does. And certainly not everybody’s been as impacted personally. So, what are some of the ways that you’re able to help families who are coping with, what can be, at least initially devastating and and challenging situation, in their homes?

DJ Jeyaram [00:04:14]:
So I’d say, you know, the first thing is understanding the tools that are available to the families from a legal estate planning, perspective. And by understanding, I what I mean is making sure you understand how the documents work, how they interrelate with each other, the concepts behind them. Because ultimately, if the parents don’t understand what those documents are, that’s my plan or the attorney’s plan for their child. It’s not their plan for their child. And so the way we try to help families is understanding the documents in just a very understandable plain English type of way, answer their questions, take their time. I think one of the benefits I have working for myself is I can spend as much time as I need to with that family and answer as many questions as possible to make sure they understand what’s going on. And then tying those documents once they under once they understand them into protecting benefits and making sure that their child is protected and cared for if the unthinkable happens and something may happen to to mom or dad?

Eric Brotman [00:05:27]:
So the the legal aspect of this is one slice of a pie that is multifaceted in every way. I mean, there are financial, situation. There are government benefits and, and other types of things to think about. There’s tax ramifications. There’s certainly healthcare and logistics, that need to be considered. And, you know, sometimes it means it means special transportation. Sometimes it means modifying a home. Sometimes it means, you know, you you know, young people who, who may never be able to live fully independently.

Eric Brotman [00:05:56]:
So there’s a great spectrum here. And, and as I mentioned in the show’s open, I had to look up some of the things that you do, because these are terms that I had not been familiar with. Can you talk a little bit about, a little bit about the new option waiver and about the comprehensive support waiver programs, which, you know, we threw out some jargon in the beginning, but quite frankly, this was all new to me. And and I’ve I thought I really knew what I was doing. So you’re teaching me a lot today.

DJ Jeyaram [00:06:26]:
It it’s really in the weeds. And so the NOW and COMP waiver are Georgia’s versions of what are called the home and community based services waivers at the federal level. So every state should really have a version of it, though they will all differ in the application process, in the waiting list process, and ultimately, the benefits received. But certainly, in Georgia and in most states, what the now comp and home community based services waivers are, it’s a set of benefits way beyond regular health care. So when people think Medicaid, and these are Medicaid waivers. When people think Medicaid, they think health care, and that’s perfectly appropriate. It’s government subsidized or covered health care insurance. But for special needs individuals, people with really, significant needs day to day, they need way more than health care.

DJ Jeyaram [00:07:23]:
And that’s where the now comp waiver comes in. It will cover things like transportation, in home services, sometimes housing. One of the big problems families have is where will my child live when I can’t take care of them and it’s not appropriate for them to be living with other people, in their private homes. And sometimes there’s group homes, there’s roommate situations. Now comp will cover the cost for that kind of thing. So it’s one of those really, really important financial government benefits that kinda bridges the gap between what I do and what you do. And that it, you know, it’s the legal piece to get that benefit and keep it. And then it ties into what you do, that financial planning piece of how does that, subsidization support their financial plan into the future.

Eric Brotman [00:08:18]:
So I I think the financial world was way behind the government and the legal world in recognizing this as a a set of unique challenges. And, you know, the financial world came out with able accounts, which are, a form of saving vehicle that allow, your special needs child to be essentially the beneficiary of some funds without having control over those funds themselves. Because if the if your child has funds in their own name, whether they’re, whether they’re accidentally inherited or whether they’re just titled incorrectly, it can it can throw a monkey wrench in this whole plan. They could lose their government benefits by virtue of having even a small amount of money in their, in their name. So, I wanna get into that from a beneficiary and a legal standpoint momentarily, but first, can you talk about the, the, the evolution of able accounts and why that’s so important for, for families that are trying to set aside funds for their for their young special needs kids.

DJ Jeyaram [00:09:16]:
Sure. So as you mentioned, somebody cannot have more than $2,000 in their name and continue to qualify for SSI, Medicaid, Katie Beckett, and those now comp waivers we just talked about. And so that raises the question, where do you put that money if you want that child to continue receiving those benefits, but it won’t interfere, with future benefits as well. So ABLE account, the evolution of that came about because our kids were being incentivized not to work. Because they would earn a certain income, they would put their money into a checking or savings account, and if they were saving anything and they got over that $2,000 mark, they would lose their benefits. And the benefits were worth more than what they were making. And so our kids were incentivized to sit at home and, you know, play video games or not have a real focus outside of, you know, entertainment at home. And so that’s that was kind of the purpose of Able.

DJ Jeyaram [00:10:19]:
Able is something where the child or adult child can work and deposit money into the ABLE account and not have it count against them for government resource benefits. And so it’s it’s incredibly important. It’s allowed our kids to get out there in the community to work, to find some meaning in in work, and, without having it affect their benefits.

Eric Brotman [00:10:47]:
And if I’m not mistaken, the able accounts were designed to model the five twenty nine college savings accounts in some ways. Obviously, they have different parameters and different purposes, but I believe the states have set them up to be very similar to what a five twenty nine would be for, for maybe saving for for education for a nonspecial needs child. Is that is that a fair oversimplification?

DJ Jeyaram [00:11:11]:
No. That that that’s absolutely right. And so the ABLE account designation is is a 529 a. And so it’s in that same section of the code. The, you know, the beauty of of ABLE, in terms of what you can use it for is you can use it for education just like a 529, but you can use it for broader purposes. You can really use it for just about anything that child special needs child needs to assist them with their special needs without having it affect their government benefits. Now, there are some limitations to it. You’re generally limited on how much you can deposit into an able account up to the federal gift tax exemption for that year.

DJ Jeyaram [00:11:58]:
So this year, it’s 18,000. My understanding is next year, it’s 19,000. Those amounts go up a little bit if the child’s working. And it’s, it has that tax benefit that the five twenty nine has where, you know, as you know, you are funding it with post income tax dollars. But once it’s in the able and invest in, say, in a mutual fund and it’s growing year to year, it grows income tax free and remains income tax free as long as it’s used for the special needs individual, for an allowable purpose.

Eric Brotman [00:12:37]:
So it’s been said, for for many, many centuries that it takes a village to raise a child. And I would say it takes an even larger village sometimes to raise a child who has some special needs. And, and a lot of family members who are attempting to be benevolent can accidentally mess this up pretty profoundly for their niece or nephew or grandchild, or what have you. And so I I think more than ever, it’s important for families to have conversations around, their intentions. They’d like to leave money to your son or daughter, for example, in your case, to leave money to your son. But they can’t just name your son as a beneficiary without potentially losing all those government benefits. At the same token, sometimes it happens by accident. If you are named as, you know, I don’t know if you have living parents, but if, if one of your parents was to say, DJ, we’re naming you as one of our beneficiaries, but we’re naming you per stirpes such that if you predecease your kids get your share, and now that’s you’ve you’ve now experienced my extent of Latin knowledge.

Eric Brotman [00:13:38]:
That’s about the end of it. But, at that moment, if you were to predecease the the the account owner, it was to skip you. It would go to your children equally, including your son. That can really mess things up completely innocently and by accident. So I, how do you counsel families, particularly those families with, you know, where the family tree is more of a shrub and there’s there’s, relatives all over the place. And you have to find a way to counsel them and say, look, if if you wanna help, we’d love that, but there’s certain special ways you need to do that. Is that something you get involved with with some of the families you represent?

DJ Jeyaram [00:14:16]:
I do to a limited extent. What we do is really kind of say, look. And I’ve had to go through this with with my parents, you know. I’m fortunate that my parents are are still around. And it it it’s not the most comfortable conversation because you never want to assume people are leaving things to you or leaving things to your kids. But, you know, these government benefits that our kids rely on or may rely on in the future are so important. You you might have to have that uncomfortable conversation. So I I advise clients, you know, sit down with, you know, mom, dad, brother, sister, you know, whoever on that shrub, may wanna contribute and to say, look, these are some really important government benefits my child’s receiving.

DJ Jeyaram [00:15:03]:
And it’s super, super important. I’m not to leave if you are gonna leave anything to them, and I’m not assuming you are, and please don’t feel any obligation to. But if you are, here’s the language to leave it to their trust, or leave it in such a way so it won’t interfere with the benefits. But again, I’m not assuming anything but, you know, we have to make sure we protect our child’s benefits. And so I think that’s I’m open to better ways to do it, but, that that that’s the way I did it, and that’s what I, suggest to my clients.

Eric Brotman [00:15:41]:
Well, anyone who knows me knows I’m a specialist in uncomfortable conversation. So I I have no trouble doing that whatsoever. And you know, I, I do think it’s important to have that discussion and sometimes it’s better to have it with an advisor in the room. So it doesn’t feel like you’re saying, Hey, mom and dad, I, I know you’re leaving money to my son and, and and it becomes a very awkward thing for them to say, no. Actually, we’re not. We’re doing something else. It it’s a permission slip to to do it, but also, an instruction manual to do it properly. And I like how you said, look, there’s no obligation.

Eric Brotman [00:16:14]:
I’m not saying you need to do this. You have to do this. I don’t know if you’re doing this or not, but if you are, doing it in the right way is is more important maybe than some people realize. And so I do think that’s where bringing the whole family together for a conversation, even if it’s limited to this discussion, because we all know money in our society is often taboo. Families don’t talk about it freely. They sooner talk about medical events than they do financial ones. And so I I do think it’s one of those awkward, uncomfortable conversations, but so, so important. Now when you when you create a special needs trust, and and I know there’s lots of different kinds, and I I I wanna avoid getting into too much of the weeds in terms of the specifics.

Eric Brotman [00:16:55]:
But when you do a special needs trust, which is designed to not inadvertently, cost your son or daughter or other loved one, the government benefits we’ve talked about. When you do a trust like that, you have to name like any trust, you have to name one or more trustees. And sometimes, you know, mom and dad are in fact the trustees for their own son or daughter’s account, but mom and dad don’t live forever. And so you have to have a process of having successor trustees or other folks. Do you see this as a, a situation where a commercial trustee makes sense, a bank trustee, a lawyer trustee, do you entrust a sibling or other close relatives who might be closer in age? How do you help families through that? Because that is a really it’s a big obligation. It’s a fiduciary duty. It’s an important role. And and so I’m just curious how you approach that conversation with with your clients when they’re drafting these trusts.

DJ Jeyaram [00:17:54]:
So that’s a great question, and it is one of the hardest questions in a special needs plan because unlike with a typical child, where, you know, your your basic typical trust may end when that typical child turns, you know, 25, 30, 30 five, and you’re willing to give them their inheritance outright, a special needs trust can last the entire life of that special needs child, which could be eighty years, ninety years. We just don’t know. So choosing those successor trustees is is super important. We always like to structure our trustee relationship with the guardians of that special needs child or the power of attorney, whoever’s looking out for that child physically, by splitting the role of trustee and guardian. So that is where we start. Said, look, we’re gonna build in some checks and balances because obviously you trust your guardians, you trust your trustees when you’re choosing them. But we all know life happens and we’ve all seen people change. And it’s not that they turn bad or evil and they’re stealing the money.

DJ Jeyaram [00:18:59]:
It could be dementia or it could be divorce or depression or substance issues. We just don’t know. And so by splitting the role, you’re creating some checks and balances. I do personally really like friends and family as the first choice, for trustees. They can hire financial professionals. They can through the trust, they can hire the lawyers and the CPA’s. But you can’t hire someone who loves your child. And so, you know, that that’s my preference.

DJ Jeyaram [00:19:31]:
Maybe that’s a little bit of a bleeding heart type type answer. But that’s my preference. But when you do maybe want more of that expertise, you can always name a professional or even an institution as a co trustee. So a little bit of both best of both worlds. You’ve got family and you’ve got professionals mixed in, each bringing, you know, a different skill set, to that trustee role. I always tell my clients, you know, it’s three big choices, friends and family, professionals, corporations, which are basically banks and trust companies. And that’s the order that I personally prefer them in. I like friends and family first.

DJ Jeyaram [00:20:16]:
If you don’t have enough people to fill your backup trustees, we suggest three backup trustees, three backup guardians. That’s a lot of people that you trust. Most people don’t have that many people they trust. And so if you don’t have enough names, that’s where I said, you know, look at professionals, look at financial planners are great, trustees. CPAs make good trustees. Lawyers, to a limited extent, I think they can be good. But, you know, I I really like financial planners and CPAs. And then the the banks and trust companies are harder just because they’re they’re so big that if the Guardian ever gets crosswise with them, it’s very hard to move them.

Eric Brotman [00:20:59]:
Got it. And and, you know, financial advisors for the most part cannot serve as trustee if they are also involved in managing any of the funds in the trust. That’s considered a conflict of interest. And there’s there’s, I think, some obvious financial, impact to, to maintaining the funds and not paying them out. And, unfortunately, unscrupulous folks will make that difficult for everybody else over time. This this feels like it feels like it takes a lot of people to work together to make this happen, not just the advisers, but family members. Now when you name a trustee in a trust like this and you name you said three successors, which is a significant, sort of pecking order or chain. A lot of times these trusts also allow trustees to recuse themselves or to, or to resign and to name a successor for themselves.

Eric Brotman [00:21:53]:
Is that something you see done periodically just to make sure if there’s a situation where a trustee is moving out of the country or something and can no longer be involved for whatever reason that that either they have the backup who you’ve named or they can name their own successor. Is that a best practice too for these?

DJ Jeyaram [00:22:10]:
So it is. Generally, what we like to do is say, hey, trustee. If you’re going to resign or retire, whoever mom and dad have named as the backup, that’s who it’s going to be. And so that’s why we want three of them. And if you spread them out by age, you know, now you have a longer lasting plan with longer lasting choices. When you get to the last trustee on that who mom and dad chose, then we do say, look. You can name your your successor if mom and dad have not named anybody, but we still like to get some buy in from that guardian, or or from the company’s individual themselves if they have capacity because we want it not just just to be one person’s decision. We want everyone to be satisfied with who that successor trustee will be.

Eric Brotman [00:23:02]:
Yeah. The some of the language used in these, you know, the the difference between guardianship and conservatorship, for example, these are these are words thrown around that that, I’m not sure are they’re not interchangeable. And and my understanding is that a guardian is for a minor whereas a conservator is for an adult. Is that true, or am I oversimplifying?

DJ Jeyaram [00:23:23]:
So so not not really. So and, some of it depends on the state you’re in in a way the terminology is defined under your state statute, and it differs. Certainly in Georgia, guardian, yes, for minors, but you can have guardianship over an adult. And, you know, more typically, you see it maybe with the elderly when they lose capacity and a adult child steps in. But for special needs child, you’re starting to have that conversation as your child reaches 18 because if they are a special needs child, they probably need some assistance with managing their life. And there’s really, in Georgia right now, only two legal options on how to do that. And one is guardianship, where mom and dad basically basically remain in the mom and dad decision making role. And two is power of attorney, where mom and dad become the child’s agent when the child turns 18 and can speak with their voice and authority on things like education and finances and health care.

DJ Jeyaram [00:24:29]:
So guardianship absolutely can continue after, the age of majority.

Eric Brotman [00:24:36]:
So so we’ve spent a a fair amount of time today talking about some of the specifics, some of the legalities, some of the financial and benefits. I’d like to shift gears, DJ, if I can, and talk a little bit about some of the emotional and, and more, more qualitative things that, that go into this, because I imagine doing what you do for a living requires not only a certain skillset legally, but also a, you called it bleeding heart, but I would just think a very big heart for people who are, in challenging situations, either themselves or their families. What kinds of what kinds of emotional and psychological resources are there for families dealing with this? There must be communities or associations or networks or or or other types of, you know, virtual neighborhoods that that folks can can utilize to collaborate and and share their their commonalities. Is that is that am I am I on the right track here?

DJ Jeyaram [00:25:33]:
Ab absolutely. You know, certainly, there are lots and lots of support groups out there from, you know, the much larger ones, which, you know, will deal with any special need to the more specific ones for autism or Down syndrome. And so there are definitely groups out there. They’re the Facebook groups that are out there. You do have to be a little bit careful about some of the Facebook groups and taking advice from there. But just for Yeah. Emotional report, it’s not a bad place to be. And, you know, there there are families.

DJ Jeyaram [00:26:06]:
You know, you can go to those groups. You can connect with families. One of the hard things about being a special needs parent, and, you know, I I think it’s fairly commonly known, is we become isolated because we can’t necessarily do the things that our typical peers can do in terms of going on vacation and restaurants and outings. And so you tend to withdraw into your little shell, and it is very, very comforting to know there are other families out there who have the same challenges you do. You can connect with them. They’ll understand if you have to cancel plans. You’ll understand if their child has some kind of behavior. But, you know, you that withdrawing into yourself is is very natural.

DJ Jeyaram [00:26:52]:
But, you know, I I think families can find a lot of comfort by expanding out and finding these groups.

Eric Brotman [00:26:59]:
And some of these are national and some of them are at the, at the local level. Is that, are there, there are groups where you can actually go and your son can, can go with you and meet other kids who are in similar situations. And, and I, I imagine that’s helpful for him too. What about education? What about schools? And I know this is different by state, but, you know, the public schools, I know in Maryland, public schools have to have a component of special needs education. And I don’t know if all of them do, or if the districts have to, and that may differ in nationwide also, but there are some schools that have particular resources for particular conditions or situations, but they’re very, very expensive. And then there’s the public school option where there’s some special needs education or special education. How do you navigate that as a parent? I mean, we all want the best education for our kids, but you’re looking at this not just from reading, writing, and arithmetic, but also for life skills and coping skills and and just being human.

DJ Jeyaram [00:27:57]:
Yeah. No. It’s honest. It’s a huge challenge. It’s a huge, huge challenge. So as you mentioned, there are private schools out there that, can can serve special needs kids. They do tend to be expensive. Some states, do have what are called special needs scholarships.

DJ Jeyaram [00:28:15]:
So Georgia has something called SB 10, which means, whatever that public school would have spent on your child’s special needs services, they can get that as a cash scholarship to apply for payment to a private school. So, you know, there are some funding options out there that are kind of maybe in the weeds in each state. If you do go to public school, there’s, of course, you know, every special needs family’s heard of IEPs. It’s one of those acronyms they throw at you as soon as you get a diagnosis. And it is it’s a whole thing. You know? Special needs education is a kinda different area of the law, but, you know, each child is entitled under federal law to fair and appropriate, public education, which means, you know, if they meet a certain level of need as determined by law, then that school system has to find the funds to serve that child. You know, every now and then we’ll hear families say, well, the school system said they just don’t have the money to do that. Money is not the standard.

DJ Jeyaram [00:29:28]:
You know, there there’s a legal standard for need for that service, and if it’s determined that they need it, that school system has to find the money.

Eric Brotman [00:29:38]:
DJ, I could talk to you all day about this. And and our our first conversation that I think we scheduled as a fifteen minute call that went ninety minutes was was a testament to that. You’re doing some really important work. And, and obviously coming from the heart, you have a, a very specific, reason for having gotten into this, into this line of work. You know, I, I, I can’t let you off of my show without asking what you wanna be when you grow up. Although I I think it’s gonna be hard for you because it sounds like you’re pretty well grown up already. So the pressure’s on. What is what is next for you and for your family potentially for for as you grow up and as you graduate into into whatever retirement looks like for you?

DJ Jeyaram [00:30:17]:
So I’m gonna give you two answers. The the the the first answer is, you know, I did a very slow pivot away from my corporate health care practice to serving special needs families. And so I kinda feel like I’m I’m doing what I wanna do in retirement. I love what I do. I take a lot of, pleasure when families leave our conversations and consultations and say, now I understand it. That that means a lot to me. So I I imagine I’ll be doing that, and probably probably drop dead at my desk one day, even that would be okay. Now if I hit the lottery, I’ll be doing this for free for some families.

DJ Jeyaram [00:31:03]:
But, honestly, one of the things my family enjoys as a family, and this is gonna be out of left field, is we like decorating for Halloween. And so we always do do it for Halloween. My son enjoys it. My daughter enjoys it. My wife and I enjoy it. And so, you know, I would love to go to families who may not be as fortunate and say, look, you know, we’re gonna set you up for Halloween or Christmas and, you know, do a really nice decoration so your family becomes and your home becomes the place to see, during those holidays, and that’s a great way for that special needs kid to connect with that that neighborhood.

Eric Brotman [00:31:41]:
You know, normally I would say having two answers is breaking the rules, but they were both so good that I I give you an a plus on your assignment for that. How can folks who are maybe dealing with some of these issues or who just want a a resource or somebody to talk to, how can folks get in touch with you?

DJ Jeyaram [00:31:59]:
So email is always the best way. I I am obsessive about checking my email. So, my email is dj,justthe2letters,@jaylaw,jeylaw,.com. I’m always glad to talk to families. You know, if it’s something I can answer or help them think through in ten, you know, fifteen minutes, you know, we don’t we never charge anything for that. And, you know, so if they have questions, you know, please email me. We can jump on a quick call. I like I said, I I love what I do, and I love talking to the families.

Eric Brotman [00:32:36]:
Well, as I knew you would be, you’ve been a wonderful guest, and you’re doing really important work. And I I can’t thank you enough for spending some time with us this morning.

DJ Jeyaram [00:32:44]:
Well, thanks for having me. It’s honestly, it’s been a pleasure.

Eric Brotman [00:32:48]:
Like to thank all of you for listening and watching today. If you enjoy our show, please subscribe, leave a rating on your favorite podcast platform, and share it with your friends and family so they can join you on your journey to financial freedom. If you’d like to send us a topic you’d like us to discuss in a future episode of don’t retire, graduate, please post it on our Facebook page or tweet us at Brotman planning. We’ll be back next week with another entry in our diary of a financial advisor and in two weeks with another engaging guest. For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman reminding you don’t retire, graduate.

Voiceover [00:33:24]:
Securities offered through Kestra investment services, LLC, Kestra IS, member FINRA SIPC, investment advisory services offered through Kestra advisory services LLC, Kestra AS, an affiliate of Kestra IS. Kestra IS or Kestra AS are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.