The Foreign Language of Finance: Overcoming Cultural, Racial, and Gender Biases to Find Financial Success with the Financially Savvy Latina

[00:00:00] Eric Brotman: Welcome to Don’t Retire, Graduate! -the podcast that asks you what you want to be when you grow up, so you can graduate into retirement with purpose and passion. I’m your host and valedictorian, Eric Brotman, and we have a guest today who’s so remarkable that I, I’m going to do what I don’t normally do, which is read a portion of her bio, because she’s just, just a, a sensational human being Natalie Torres-Haddad, is a two time TEDx speaker. I’ve only seen one of the talks, but it was spectacular. She’s an international award-winning author. She wrote a 2012 book and, and won all kinds of awards with it. She’s a bilingual podcaster host of “Financially Savvy in 20 minutes”, which… 20 minutes? That sounds terrific. She’s an international keynote speaker, she’s an educator, she’s been in the Huffington Post, the LA Times and pretty much everywhere that there’s print and, and I’m, I’m out of time. And the show is over just from the bio. Natalie, welcome to Don’t Retire, Graduate.

[00:01:00] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:02] Eric Brotman: I, it, it, it we’re gonna talk today about about language and about the language of financial literacy and how that’s so similar to a foreign language and how it can be so daunting for people when they’re hearing terms and words that might as well be a foreign language, quite, quite frankly. But before we dive into that, which I know is gonna be fascinating, we’re gonna have some fun with it. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got to be not only a multi-time author, but I know you have a new book coming out and, and just how you got so passionate about financial literacy.

[00:01:37] Natalie Torres-Haddad: It’s such a big question. I always feel it’s not easy to answer, but I think for me it started early on in, I would say maybe in high school. I, I have a very similar upbringing, like the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad- a lot of people have read by Robert Kiyosaki and meaning I grew up in Inglewood, California, and during the time it’s a very different Inglewood now compared to when I grew up there, but this is right before the LA riots or we call it the LA uprising and, you know, it’s a very extreme poverty, you know, that you see within, you know, blocks of where you live. A very diverse community as well cuz it’s mostly made up of immigrants and I’m, myself, an immigrant refugee. My family fled El Salvador during the civil war. And I grew up and went to public school there up until fifth grade and the LA riots happened and my parents feared, you know, what was going around in our neighborhoods. And so then they moved us into private school, my brother, my younger brother and I, and private school and then all of a sudden we went to really great high school, one of the best for private school as well. And now I heard people have very different languages, very different lifestyles. I’m talking about people that, you know, kids that were my age, but their parents were you know, CEOs- major own major companies. I still had remember a friend that her dad owned 12 Subways, and this was in the, in the early nineties, and back then 12 Subways was basically just starting out and it was amazing. And, and you had, you know, a lot of the people from that school are, you know, Olympians. You know, they definitely come from well- to- do families. And so here’s me trying to navigate that, you know, coming– and my dad, I remember he used to drive us every morning and back at least 45 minutes each way, and I’m from LA and that’s just taking the streets to make sure we went to this, you know, fancy private school, and I felt like I became this liaison between what the poor and the rich were dealing with –our, the way we talk to our parents, the way parents talk to us is very different. And I always felt lucky that my parents gave us everything we needed, at least the necessities. And then private school was like college tuition. And so, you know, we had very limited funds, so we knew we were in the poor bracket, you could say, but I was fascinated by how many more opportunities the rich had, right? I was fascinated by how the, well, you could say…. Let me back up– the basic human rights that many of us don’t have, especially for black and brown communities, especially in cities that have lack of funds, that lack of resources…. We don’t get those same opportunities. So I thought, how can I bring what I’m learning? And I had so many parents that were just wonderful with me. They’re like, “oh, let me teach you about this. Or, you know, how, how do your parents do that?” I’m like my parents don’t have a retirement account or they don’t, you know, or maybe they’re starting one”, right? And so some of these conversations that, that I was hearing around their homes cause I was very involved in high school so, you know, we had after school activities I’d go home to my parents and talk to them. And I was their translator because my dad didn’t speak any English. My mom did speak English. So it was just kind of like I’m learning these two languages at once, right? I was learning how to translate this English and because Spanish is also my first language and then learning what financial literacy is. And back in college, I was a business major– I had two degrees in finance, international business, but I still felt like I didn’t have enough information on what personal, personal finance looked like. I was usually the only female in my classroom, usually the only person of color. And so I knew that one representation was lacking. But second I felt there wasn’t enough perspective of where I’m coming from. And yet I thought there’s so many people around me that look like me, that just don’t have this information, right? And so I immersed myself in books and conferences. And back then, this is, and you know this before YouTube, before Facebook…

[00:05:44] Eric Brotman: mm-hmm

[00:05:45] Natalie Torres-Haddad: you had to pay thousands of dollars to go in person, sometimes outta state for certain workshops and I would, I usually would get the same response from people and say, “oh, you’re so young”. Cuz I was, I was in my early twenties. They’re like, “oh, I wish my kids were here like you are” learning about certain things that, you know, they were learning in their fifties. And so I always kind of felt like, okay, maybe I’m in the right place or maybe I’m just crazy cuz no one here looks like me or sounds like me. But fast forward 10 years it really did change my life personally and the, my family, really my community around me. So I think that’s kind of the power of, of the fascination around what financial literacy is and really understanding how we can apply it to everyday life.

[00:06:31] Eric Brotman: One of the things that we struggle with as, as professional financial advisors, and “struggle” may not be the right word, considering what you just shared with us about your upbringing. So “struggle” is the wrong word. Why don’t we just say one of the “speed bumps”, one of the speed bumps, we jump over at full speed anyway. It, but it, but it is being relatable and it is speaking a language that people can can understand, and it is trying to avoid some of the jargon that really, regardless of your upbringing, there’s, there’s people with PhDs who know nothing about financial literacy or personal finance, because it really isn’t taught anywhere. And if they didn’t get it at home, and usually they don’t get it at home, and if they do it’s what NOT to do, not what TO do. It, it is, it is definitely a, a, a communication hurdle and one that we have to navigate very carefully so that we’re not alienating because people– it’s like someone who’s hard of hearing will nod and smile like they hear you, but they don’t. And they don’t wanna admit that they’re, that, that, that that’s the situation. Or we have, we have clients in our office, we used to have deliverables and we realized the font wasn’t big enough. And there were people who really couldn’t read it properly, and so now we have reading glasses on our conference tables just in case. Because that’s the last thing we wanna make someone feel is just nod and smile and this will all go away. So there’s so much to learn about that, right? So, so how do you, how do you bridge that and, and how do you make something that is by its very nature complicated, simple enough without being condescending, but simple enough so that it’s, so it’s relatable?

[00:08:10] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Yeah, you know, I assume, I mean, what you just said, I think it’s, it’s, you know, knowing your clients, knowing what you know and how you wish somebody would’ve presented, you know, like you said, having that font or something. And for me, I think it’s the way I’ve tackled it, and while I still continue to tackle it is bits and bits of pieces of it, right? So, and that’s something I always tell my students, my clients that: when they’re starting to learn something new, like I call it the “foreign language of financial literacy” is

[00:08:38] Eric Brotman: mm-hmm, mm-hmm

[00:08:39] Natalie Torres-Haddad: what can you start with one, one thing today, 20 minutes outta your day, right? And figure out why you’re interested in that. And what happens is when you start learning this little bit of this huge evolving language you get more, you get more interested in other concepts and then also understand; and that’s what I always tell, especially I feel like I have of a harder time with my younger you would say younger students, and these are like people that are, you know, recent college graduates. That– to be patient with themselves because, you know, they wanna know, you know, what’s the fastest way to make money? They wanna know what’s the best way to say what’s, what’s the best way to invest? They basically wanna do things opposite of what their parents did. So they’re like, what can I do now?

[00:09:21] Eric Brotman: Mm-hmm

[00:09:21] Natalie Torres-Haddad: And I always tell them be patient with yourself because you’re also learning as you grow. And your twenties, your thirties are completely different, your forties, another, another chapter, right? And so, and so forth. And so sometimes I remind them like: focus on, what’s important to you now which, you know, 20 year old could be, you know, career, it could be traveling, it could be, you know, starting a family, whatever it might be. But just figuring out, okay, what can I learn today? Whether it’s listening to a podcast like yours or listen, you know, reading a, a chapter of a book you know, taking the time to— now I, I always tell people beware some YouTube videos or certain things. I always feel like they might be giving the wrong information, and we know this there’s a lot of bad information out there. But really honing down on some of those basic books that were, that are helpful and picking the ones that are, are enjoyable too, because I’m not gonna name some books, but you probably read many of them as well. They look like huge, you know, twice the size of a Bible or something. And

[00:10:21] Eric Brotman: mm-hmm

[00:10:21] Natalie Torres-Haddad: and, and if some were to say, you know, students always ask me, should I read this book? I’m like, “yes, but it’s not the first one you should start with because it’s overwhelming just looking at that, and when you start reading it, they go into such jargon and literally terms that you just are like, what does this mean? You need a, another dictionary for it.”

[00:10:39] Eric Brotman: Yeah.

[00:10:39] Natalie Torres-Haddad: And so I find that important to just say, you know, “what can you tackle today? Just what makes it a little bit easier?”

[00:10:46] Eric Brotman: So it’s like traveling in a foreign country where you really don’t know a lot of the language– you know enough to ask for a taxi, to find the bathroom, and maybe your hotel, and not much more. And so you carry a little pocket digest, right? That, that, that helps with translation. Or of course now it’s all on your phone. You can, you can do that electronically. Now I’m dating myself- how nice. How, how do you do, how do you do that in finance? And by the way, I, I hate to do two questions at once- it’s a podcasting no, no, but I have to. Your show is not “Financially Literate in 20 minutes”, it’s “Financially Savvy in 20 minutes”. So how long does it take to get literate? If I can’t get literate in 20 minutes, then what?

[00:11:25] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Here’s the spoiler people: it’s a never ending process. So you’re never just 100% fluent. And for those of us that, you know, have been taught different languages… it, it’s always evolving. I’m, and my, my, one of my family members just moved here a few years ago from, from El Salvador to Boston and, you know, Boston, we got, they got the accent, right? And he’s like, they sound very different than what you sound like, right?

[00:11:49] Eric Brotman: No, no…..

[00:11:50] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Right, yeah. I can’t, my, my husband does a better accent than I do. And I said, “well, yeah.” And he’s like, but on top of that, he listens to us that are from California, and he’s like, “what is fab? What is…”, you know? And then I go, “oh, they’re shortening the words”. So, and he’s learning, he knows proper English cuz what you, you learn back in school or whatever you wanna call proper English, so

[00:12:11] Eric Brotman: Yeah, no, proper “American” is not proper English.

[00:12:14] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Exactly. Proper “American English”, right?

[00:12:15] Eric Brotman: It’s not. Yeah.

[00:12:19] Natalie Torres-Haddad: So it’s, it’s the same thing with, with your finances. And it’s funny when you said the pocket book, because yes, you, you out date our age, but my very first- so I’ll give you a backstory of my very first book that I did write- it wasn’t meant to be an actual, like big book. It was just meant to be, well, I started writing it as a regular book and, and then I would ask my friends for advice. And I’m like, they’re not gonna read this cuz I tell them to read all these amazing other books from great authors and they wouldn’t do it. So I said around Christmas time, I’m like, what if I give ’em like a little pocket book? And it was just that I wanted them to have, you know, those yellow Cliff’s notes books that everyone would have back in high school.

[00:12:56] Eric Brotman: Yeah. Oh, not me. No, never.

[00:12:59] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Right?

[00:13:00] Eric Brotman: I don’t know what you’re talking about.

[00:13:03] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Yeah. No, we didn’t cheat. No, but I always actually loved the Cliff’s notes cuz I wanna make sure I understood what I was reading, especially as another language, sometimes you’re just kinda like, oh, I thought this is I, I, I took it very differently. So with my first book, it was that. I, I, you know, I broke down some of the things where I’m like, these are the five top things I think you should know. These are the things that you, you know, and it was catered for people that are just graduated from college. So I was so sick of hearing…. And back then there wasn’t as many books on this, on especially financial experts and professionals telling people my age, you know, millennials or whatever group you are in. You know, it’s, it’s your fault that you’re in so much debt you know, or you’re eventually gonna pay it off. And then these are people that hadn’t been in college in at least over 10 years they don’t have six figure debt graduating from universities because of tuition is completely different now as it was back then and many of us that are first generation had no choice but to take out a loan in order to finish within the certain amount of time, because I often got that, they’re like, “oh, just, you know, pay as you go, and, you know, work full time”, which I did as well, but it was impossible to catch up with my other counterparts who didn’t have to work full time and go to school full time and still take out a loan because we didn’t have help from our family. Or somehow maybe we didn’t meet the criteria, especially for a lot of non-documented students. That’s the reality where it’s like, you can’t get the funds that other people have access to.

[00:14:30] Eric Brotman: I saw recently somewhere scrolling somewhere on social media, some kind of meme that said, we’re… “people say we’re in the same boat. We’re not in the same boat. We’re in the same storm.” And I thought that was incredibly simple, but also incredibly profound. The storm is the same. Our ability to weather those storms, whether it’s recession or gas prices or inflation or job loss or any other event really does depend on the boat you’re in. And a lot of that has to do with resources, with education, with that safety net that you know, to your point, some communities and some families have, and others simply do not. And, and I think a good portion of the United States is one missed paycheck away from real trouble. And that’s a scary place to be. That’s a scary, that means you can’t afford to get sick. You can’t afford to get hurt. You can’t afford to, to, to miss to, to miss a deadline or, or… and, and I think being…..

[00:15:30] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Or miss a mortgage payment

[00:15:33] Eric Brotman: Well, and, and, and being on the razor’s edge of that has to be an incredibly anxiety producing thing. And then you throw in, let’s throw in a global pandemic and some economic crisis and, and just for fun, some political discourse, that’s, that’s as unfriendly as any we’ve ever seen. And let’s throw all this stuff together and see if we can all be on the right anxiety meds. And I, I feel for those, I feel for those people who don’t have those resources and I, and I think you’re creating some of those resources and one person can only do so much, but I think you’re starting to build an influence over specific communities that really has a chance to make a difference and reach the masses.

Did you set out to do that or was that an accident? I mean, you’re, you’re doing it. Yeah.

[00:16:29] Natalie Torres-Haddad: First, thank you for that question. It’s it’s a long sight because there’s a lot of hopefulness with it and a lot of frustration that I’ve had to endure. And, and what I mean by that is even just, I actually have this conversation often. The last, within the last five years, I started to see more people, especially brown people, black and brown people in the finance space, which is awesome. Latinos we make, or Latinx, are within an even smaller group. And honestly, when I was, I had just started, this was like back in 2011. When I used to, I started basically started going to universities across the country and talking and…. it was, I was always the first, they’ve never seen that before. And it sounds cool being the first, but it also is not for many reasons because well, racism is big, right? And not just that, but it’s also just trying to navigate: all right, what makes me feel safe? What makes me feel heard? What makes me feel that I’m valid? And just even before, right, right during the pandemic- I’m not gonna mention what conferences- were being called out on the lack of representation, inequality within the speakers, within the audience. And I had brought that up early on with a group of other people that were similar, you know, similar background. And it was almost dismissed until it was through social media. People were publicly talking about their experience that they decided to switch and change. And so I always, it comes back to what my grandma would teach my mom and I, my mom’s the same way where, you know, my mom would say, “if you don’t see the representation of yourself, or you don’t see anyone that looks like you where you are, you… you’re still there. It just means that you’re gonna be that example for other people”. And I feel like that weighs a lot of responsibility, but it’s needed. And for me I can’t tell you how many times I found myself crying in the bathroom when I was, you know, about to graduate from college and then grants grad school calling my husband a few times when I was traveling throughout the country. You know, and, and speaking to extremely smart, you know, PhDs, you know, doctors and, you know, I was like, oh, here they see me. And, you know, maybe they had just had some comments that were, had nothing to do with my content, but, you know, I look like I’m Latina cause I am, right? And so the stereotypical title type and, and I call my husband and he’d be like, “look, you’re not there to teach them about life. You’re there to teach them about something you’re, you’re an expert in”. And I think that’s something that gave me the confidence to be like, you’re right. I’m just gonna tell them based on what I’ve done on my own and with people that I’ve worked with. And, and at the end of the day, it’s and this is for anyone, any of your listeners, like, I’m sure they’re kind of feeling that way. They’re like, “oh, maybe I’m not good with money or never will be. Or maybe my industry just doesn’t have, you know, my outlook or whatever it might be. One, you belong to be there no matter where it is, but I hope they tell themselves the way I told myself was I’m just here to try to figure out what works for me. And hopefully that will, will trickle down to my family, my friends, my community and, and it really does take this…. I’m gonna get emotional, but it takes on this life of its own that you didn’t expect. The TEDx topic, I never would expected that. I would’ve never expected the books. I would’ve never expected the podcast and just everything that’s evolved from it. And I’ve… have always been a person that I love being behind the scenes. So when I started being hired for doing campaigns and commercials, this is something I wish I would’ve seen growing up. And I still remember some of ….all my professors were all white male. I had some really great professors and I also had some really horrible ones that were usually just because they were racist and looking back I’m like, I was just a kid trying to navigate. And I always felt I lacked of, and I wasn’t enough. And so I was always trying to compete with someone that had, you know, 10 steps ahead of me, and I’m like, yeah, I’m barely on step one. And a lot of people feel that about their money. They’re like, oh, I’m competing with… actually I just had a client last week that told me that she paid $40,000, right before the pandemic, she had this chunk of money that she wanted to use for a deposit on something, a property, but the pandemic hit and she lost her job. And so she used the majority of her funds to pay for her rent, living expenses. And she almost felt like she’s, here she is starting all over again. And I said, “well, first of all, you’re not homeless, right? And congrats on saving that much. You could do it again”. But, I understand where she was saying that she goes “Here I am. When I thought I’ve made it, now I have to start again”. So, my point is that I think all of us just when we start something new and you’d probably have this when you’re talking to different clients, cuz you know, everyone has different needs.

[00:21:10] Eric Brotman: Mm-hmm

[00:21:11] Natalie Torres-Haddad: It’s just kind of figuring out what works for you why you keep doing it? At the end of the day, I keep doing it for my family. I keep doing it for, not necessarily that my family will, will reap from it, but that my family feels represented and feel heard. And there’s a saying in Spanish, my grandma would always say, and it’s, in English it’s “you are your ancestors’ wildest dreams” “tu eres los sueños realizados de tu antepasados”. And, and, it’s really hard to believe that when you don’t feel like you have much or you’re in debt and, and I, when I think about that, I’m like, she’s right, I’m healthy. I have my milk when I sometimes do . And so those are the things that I think about that really make the difference. And I’m sure a lot of people feel that way when they’re starting something new.

[00:21:56] Eric Brotman: When I watched your Ted talk, I wrote that down…. among other things. I was taking notes. First of all, it’s brilliant. And we’ll make sure that, that the talk link is in the show notes because it’s, it’s 10 minutes really, really well spent.

[00:22:12] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Thank you.

[00:22:12] Eric Brotman: You, you know, you talked about, you talked about race, you talked about socioeconomics, you talked about you know, age, we haven’t talked about gender at all. And I don’t think, I don’t think when we start talking financial literacy our industry is 88% male still, and it, it’s a, it’s a, an interesting thing. I have a daughter who happens to be fabulous at math, despite the fact that girls are still raised to believe they’re not, which is bizarre. Like why in the world would anyone be told, “oh, you’re not gonna be good at this” because of something like that, and it’s, it’s frustrating. And of course it’s not true. There’s no basis for it. Other than a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you tell people enough that they’re, they’re gonna start to believe it, right? So the, there, there are organizations that are out trying to change the demographics of our industry, and by the way, I think there’s progress. I don’t think it’s everywhere, but I think it’s there. And I think there’s awareness, which is the first step. We… there’s no path into this business. There’s no you can’t just go get an accounting degree and sit for your CPA and work for an accounting firm or go pass the bar and be a lawyer. To get into this industry is extremely challenging because there is no, there’s no path. There’s no roadmap. There’s lots of ways to do it. And most of them are generated by who do you? Which is then again, a self-fulfilling prophecy, if those are the people, you know, so I, I don’t wanna belabor this point other than to say that, you know, for a woman to be speaking to an audience about finances, she has a hurdle to overcome before she opens her mouth. And I’m sure that’s not the only hurdle. So you’ve got a half a dozen of them. So you’re, you’re basically running a, the a hundred meter ,

[00:24:12] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Tiring

[00:24:12] Eric Brotman: and to be well, yeah! And to be, and to be taken seriously. And you know, this, this business is white and male and old, and I’m at least two of those three things, Natalie I’m, I’m hoping I’m not all three of those things yet, although I’m on my way. And I, and I think there’s, it’s very important to recognize that the demographics of the business has to change because the demographics of the consumer, of the company, of the world- is also changing. And that’s not to suggest that people will only relate to people like themselves. That is simply not true. But it doesn’t hurt to have representation and diverse opinions and backgrounds in lots of different ways. And so, you know, we’re certainly trying to hire that way and not on purpose, by the way. I, we don’t have a, a hiring plan at our firm that says, we, we want this specific demographic. We’re finding great people and…. it’s a diverse group because great people are all different types of people. So I think it’s changing. I do. I want maybe I’m naive. Am I naive? Tell me the truth. Am I naive? Am I missing it or is this….

[00:25:14] Natalie Torres-Haddad: No, I, I agree. I, I’m an optimistic too. I, I agree. I think there’s been progress. I mean, I, I look at the way things have changed as far as access, right? Not just through social media, right? But it’s that we see, we are seeing more representation, yes, they they’re still lacking. But the point on like the gender side, I think I actually had this conversation with another podcaster where it was, I told him I was raised like a boy and he was like, “what do you mean by that?” And I go, well my, I, my, I’m the oldest and just my brother and I, my younger brother and my dad very much ingrained into my mom as well. They were both feminists before they knew what that meant. And my dad would always say, I expect you to have your education, your own home, travel and maybe accomplish a few dreams bef *if* you decide to settle down. It wasn’t “oh, I hope you get married”. And I know a lot of women, a lot of girls hear that message at home, like, “oh, marry well”, or “make sure you, you marry someone that can take care of you and the family”. It, it was complete opposite in my home. And so for me, growing up, I remember I was 15, he was telling me this and then kept hearing it over and over then I went to college. I’m the first in the family to do that, and all these other things that I was achieving and, and, and basically dream come true, all these things. And when I would meet, still meet, I still do. I still meet women that are well into their eighties, or it doesn’t matter almost what age they are. They never heard that message. And so for me, I always assume it was just gonna happen all these things. And so I think when society starts to teach our girls, our women the same way of thinking that they can do anything- that they can dabble. And, and I think women are really hard on themselves as well, because we’re already told we’re not good enough, or we’re not gonna get paid enough. And we talk about income wage bracket, right? And how if you even break it down by, by ethnicity still Latinx are the lowest paid. I believe it’s 57 cents to a dollar compared to white male counterpart. And so the fact that we know we have to work just as twice as hard, excuse me, and to just to get, be seen as an equal, right? And I think it’s, it’s, I believe we’re in the right direction. I believe there’s a lot more allies. But I think there’s still a lot more work to be done because what I see often happen when you do see these trailblazers, when you do see some representation, they get burnt out. I, I definitely know how that feels. And we quit or we have to pivot, or we have to do something else because it’s just too hard. And the beautiful thing is now looking back at, and now I see a bunch of like financial literacy influencers you wanna call them that are, you know, younger than me and they’re doings so much better and they’re just doing well. And a lot of them reached out to me before they started, like, “how do I do this?” Or, and, and it feels so good to know that I’ve helped them with it. And, and they didn’t have to go through that like you said, same struggles that we’re just trying to figure out when we’re changing the game. And I, I think about the, and I was lucky my mom was…. well, she wasn’t an executive, always, her story’s incredible, but she was basically that from the housekeeper in a hotel, because when they came here, you know, that’s all they thought that she could do. Luckily she spoke English as well and moved up the ranks, got into accounting, got into HR, is, and has been a, an executive for almost two decades now, which is really unheard of always being the only woman. And I saw that positive role model in my life. And so when I talk to men and women, I’m like, all of you can definitely become better with your money. Don’t listen to the stereotypes. And, and also we, I come from a culture that’s very much “machismo” specifically Latino, black and brown communities is very machismo. And so teaching to rewire ourselves and be like, no, we, we deserve to be equals, you know, be good partners. And and if we’re not good with money, it’s not necessarily completely our fault. It’s just, we have to learn this, this new way of thinking. And it takes time and you know that as we get older, it’s just, it’s more of a challenge, but it’s doable.

[00:29:19] Eric Brotman: Well, I love, I love your optimism, your, your, we talked about your Ted talk. Your Ted talk was five steps. And in the end it was five steps to determine that you’re going to be okay. And I don’t wanna spoil them because I want our listeners to go and I want our viewers to go watch this, but one of them one of the steps, the last step is the one I wanna focus on, which is be patient with yourself. There’s so much wisdom in this talk, truly, so much wisdom in this. And particularly younger generations have gotten very accustomed to instant access. Children today will never have to know what it is to do dial- up internet and wait, seven minutes just to connect. If it takes three seconds, they’re hitting the side of the computer, cuz something’s wrong. The, the, our, our access to information, they’ll never have to go to a library to research something. They can do it in their pajamas. It’s, it’s instant, instant gratification. You don’t even have to wait for the commercial to end to continue your show. You, you know what I mean? Like there is no patience anywhere, not on the highways. And I don’t have to tell you that being in LA there’s no patience on the highways. There’s no patience in in a line anywhere. There’s no patience online. There’s no patience on hold. And so being patient with yourself, giving yourself some grace; that you’re not gonna, you know, snap your fingers and suddenly be an expert at this any more than you would be at, at building a bridge. It’s, I think it’s okay.

[00:30:56] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Yeah, absolutely. I, I think being patient with yourself is so extremely difficult and for, especially for our youth, like, I, I really think about this is why they deal with so much anxiety. And, and mental health is a real big topic right now because they’re been conditioned since, you know, they’re babies to look at tablets to, there’s so many distractions, that anxiety is a whole different level. And so trying to figure something out on your own and having the patience to do that is almost nonexistent, right? And so you’re right. That was the last tip I had included in my talk was because I think one, I’m a big advocate for mental mental health, because like I said, you can’t have one without the other. You can’t have financial health and mental wealth. If one of them’s off the other one’s gonna suffer as well. And because I’ve personally experienced on both ends, right. And… what I think about as adults as well. We, you know, we, we don’t wanna mis— make mistakes because we know what type of consequences can happen, right? That it not just affect us. It can affect our families, right? But I, I agree that when we start to just maybe remind ourselves like I’m learning or, you know, that was a mistake. But that mistake isn’t regretful, it’s just, I learned from it. And I always tell students that. I say, “the first place that I bought that was a rental property, oh God, I think I made the most mistakes in that, and that could have easily told me never buy another property again.” But I’m so glad I went through all that because it made investing a little bit easier. Not always it’s, you know, it just depends on the property, but it allowed me to, to not repeat some of those mistakes, and it also allowed me to just kind of figure out what I’m comfortable with, right? And I think when we figure out what type of patience we’re, we’re looking for, especially when it comes to learning about financial literacy is what makes me feel comfortable. That’s why I always say 20 minutes outta your day, cuz that’s how you’re learning a language. Usually you take 20 minutes every day to practice some new terms, some new phrases, phrases -incorporate ’em in your language. And I think goes the same with money. You know, I don’t expect someone to be sitting down for a whole hour and do just, you know, look at personal statements and just do accounting because why would they wanna do that every day, especially if they’re not interested or don’t know much about it yet. And so patience is huge because we’re so hard on ourselves. We come from a, a generation where we’ve seen how much our parents have struggled. We see how many people are struggling now that we don’t wanna repeat that. And we think, well, if we fix the problem now we won’t have to encounter future mistakes later on. But we all know with age and wisdom, how it works. And usually we’re, we’re, we’re learning more from our mistakes as opposed to when everything goes well, and it’s, it’s funny because when things happen so easily, you expect it to always be that way. And I felt from the beginning in high school, I felt like I was the, this liaison. Some of my, my wealthy friends had no clue how hard it was for others that, you know, had to take care of and, and contribute to the family monthly expenses and go to school full time while working. And so, and then I also thought about those that were poor. They had no idea on certain things that they were making harder for themselves because no one had taught them the easier route, right? Or, you know, things that they could like my, my, my mentors always say work smarter, not harder. And so those little things I think both areas are lacking. And so It’s kind of interesting being a translator your whole life, not just to your parents, but to the rest of the world. Now, when it comes to, you know, they’re like, “what does this mean?” And I go let me break it down how I see it and then apply it to yours. And I, I always find it interesting you when people are like, can you explain generational wealth? Can you explain how this affects me? And so I’m a, I’m, I’m a big I’m fascinated by economy. Just the way economy works here, in other countries, and what we can take from, from, from the best from each, and hopefully not keep repeating the same mistakes.

[00:35:04] Eric Brotman: Well, we are woefully almost out of time. I, I will tell you that I expect you’ll be at FinCon? I expect that if you are…

[00:35:13] Natalie Torres-Haddad: I’m not actually. Not this year.

[00:35:14] Eric Brotman: You’re not going. All right, well, the next time we get a chance, the next time we get a chance, I, I wanna spend more time with you. I could talk to you for, for a week and a half. But I do need to ask you- it’s very important- particularly since you work with young people and everything else, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Everybody gets asked that until they’re, you know when they’re kids; we never ask adults. So what do you wanna be when you grow up? What’s next?

[00:35:39] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Oh, for me, is, I wanna be a community game changer and, and still within the realms of finance. And I know that sounds kind of lame, but for me, it’s like, I love dance. I love art. And I feel like there’s still lack…. there still lacks a lot of that within the content that we create. And I have so much fun with incorporating things like that. So for me it, it doesn’t exist, you could say, as that type of job, but I’m creating it as I go, and, I think that’s kind of the things I’ve always wanted to do. And I’m, I’m still trying to figure it out, how to navigate that.

[00:36:11] Eric Brotman: Well, you’re, you’re, you’re you’re ahead of the curve already and I, I can’t thank you enough for spending time with us today. I do need an extra credit assignment from you, and I’m gonna assign one too, and it might even be the same one, but, but you’re first, no pressure at all. What’s the extra credit assignment today for our, for our, our listeners. What, what can they do today to be better either from a personal financial literacy or, or financial independence standpoint?

[00:36:36] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Yeah. I kept on drilling “take 20 minutes out of your day”. So I’m gonna stick a little bit with that, but I want everybody that’s listening today…. just take one thing that you wanna accomplish before the end of the year. I know we’re like almost there a few months away and write it out somewhere that you’re gonna see it every single day. So then when you’re taking 20 minutes every single day to learn something about financial literacy, it’s because you’re reminded, oh, it’s cuz I wanna buy that house, oh, it’s because I wanna take my family on this trip. I feel like our goals are much more attainable when it’s something fun, as opposed to saying, oh, I wanna be out of debt or I wanna be, you know I wanna have a, you know, better credit limit. It’s not as exciting, right? So write something at least that one goal that by the end of 2022 you can accomplish, and those 20 minutes outta your day is because you’re working towards that.

[00:37:25] Eric Brotman: Well I think that’s sage advice, and I’m going to piggyback on that and I’m gonna say everyone should not only take the 20 minutes– but the first 10 should be watching your Ted talk. So I, I will make sure that that’s in the notes. It is really, really wonderful. Natalie, it’s been fun. I, I, I could talk to you all day. I’ve really enjoyed this. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your gravitas, and your sense of humor. And you know, I hope we’ll, we’ll stay in touch for sure.

[00:37:53] Natalie Torres-Haddad: Oh, I’m sure we will. Thank you so much for having me. Can’t wait. And yes, I’ll see you hopefully soon in person.

[00:37:59] Eric Brotman: Sounds great. I’d like to thank all of you for listening and for watching this week, “Don’t Retire, Graduate” comes to you every Thursday. Next week we’ll have another Office Hours. In two weeks we’ll have another engaging guest. For now, just remember: don’t retire, graduate! This is your host, Eric Brotman. I’ll see you next week.

[00:38:27] Narrator: Securities offered through Kestra Investment Services, LLC. Kestra IS, member FINRA SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through Kestra Advisory Services, LLC. Kestra AS, an affiliate of Kestra IS. Kestra IS or Ketra AS are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.