Season 4, Episode 3 Baring it All: Embracing the Intersection of Your Mental Health and Money Journeys

[00:00:00] Eric Brotman: Welcome to Don’t Retire… Graduate!: The podcast that teaches you how to advance into retirement rather than retreating. I’m your host and valedictorian Eric Brotman. And today we have a sensational guest with us, Chloe Daniels, who is a money coach, a recently unemployed, and now full time money coach, which I’m very excited to talk about.

And she’s a mental health blogger. She’s involved in financial coaching, and she’s going to help us with the intersection of mental and financial wellness. Chloe, welcome to the show.

[00:00:32] Chloe Daniels: Thank you so much, excited to be here and excited to talk about money and mental health.

[00:00:36] Eric Brotman: Well, the, the timing couldn’t be better because this week is it features World Mental Health Day, October 10.

And I want to hear a little bit about that and how that has influenced your work. But first I’d like to get to know you a little bit, tell our audience a little bit about you and how you got to where you are today.

[00:00:53] Chloe Daniels: Yeah, for sure. So I kind of have a not very linear path for sure. And I started my blog CLO Bare back in 2017 when I was dealing with some pretty heavy mental health issues. I had PTSD that I didn’t know I had, I was struggling with that pretty much daily. And I finally decided to go and see a therapist. And around the same time that I decided to go see a therapist to work on whatever this thing was that I didn’t know what it was. I also decided to start a blog because at the time in my life, I really was struggling with needing purpose. I had just moved to Chicago from China. And I lived in actually Wuhan China, oddly enough, which was not famous back when I lived there. Definitely famous now. But I had just moved from China to Chicago. And when I lived in China, I had had the blog called Chloe does China. And like, it was my world. It was something that I really enjoyed doing. I loved the engaging factor, connecting with people all around the world and things like that.

And when I moved to Chicago, I wasn’t really sure what I wanted to do. You know, I had found my, my stride working a nine to five, but I wasn’t really happy doing what I was doing. And so I just went back to what I knew made me happy and that was blogging. So. When I started blogging because the thing that was most present in my life at that time was dealing with my mental health and kind of figure, just kind of figuring out life, you know, in your mid twenties, you’re just kinda like figuring out who you are and what makes you happy and what you want to do with your time.

And so I started blogging about therapy and I started blogging about my struggles and what was really cool is, you know, I started connecting with all of these people who were like, it’s so nice to hear somebody talk about this stuff and, and not just focus on the good things. You know, there’s so many bloggers out there that are like fashion bloggers or, you know, lifestyle bloggers, maybe lifestyles and air quotes.

And it’s so often that highlight reel and mine was kind of being at Thai highlight reel where I was showing. Really it wasn’t showing the highlights. I was really showing the struggles just sort of, you know, people could see that there are people out there struggling and working on themselves too.

And it w it definitely got a little community around it, which was really cool. But as I grew over the couple of years that I started from 2017, I want to say it was 2018, almost the end of the year where I really was still working on my mental health and things like that. But I realized I, one of the big factors in my stress and anxiety and worry was money.

And I really couldn’t ignore the fact that I was bad with money. So I decided to keep blogging about mental health and personal growth. But I decided to also start sharing my budget every month on the internet for everybody to read. So I would literally post everything that I spent money on for the last 30 days just to kind of like keep me accountable and to keep me learning. And when I first started, I had no idea what I was doing. So it’s really funny to see the progression of 2018 Chloe to, you know, 2021 Chloe who is now teaching people about, you know, personal finances, investing and budgeting and all of those things.

So it was just kind of a journey. And I, you know, a lot of people when they start off in the personal finance world, it’s kind of like a rabbit hole. And you can’t really get out of it once you get into it. And that’s what happened for me is I just really became obsessed with it. And as my struggles with mental health kind of diminished, and I kind of got a really good handle on it.

I, I just wanted to write about personal finance and like I ended up embracing it. I took a little break from Clo Bare for a while, but when I came back, I was like, what do I really want to write about? Not just, what do I feel like I have to write about? And it was personal finance. So now I’m pretty much strictly personal finance platform, but I do really focus on making a personal finance human. I like to talk about the intersection of mental health and personal finance, because I do think it’s an important topic that we’re really not talking enough about. So it’s still very present and obviously you can still read all of the mental health writing that I have up on my blog.

But now the focus is really on accessible and not intimidating personal finance.

[00:05:14] Eric Brotman: Chloe, you touched on what I think are two of the three great third rails of humanity and vulnerability in five minutes. One of them being this idea that, that you decided to get therapy and by the way, I’ve never met anyone who wouldn’t benefit from therapy.

In fact, I know I have over the years I have over the years, but, but people don’t talk about it. And then the other thing people don’t talk about is money, particularly money struggles, because everybody wants to look like they’re, they’re the Joneses you need to keep up with. And that’s a very unhealthy thing, but, but also incredibly common in a social media world.

So those are two, I mean, the only thing you really haven’t done is pose for Vogue or something. You know, untouched. So if that’s coming I don’t know, but that would be the third rail. I mean, literally you, you have mental health, you have financial health and then you have physical appearance. And other than that, I don’t know where else you could be more vulnerable.

[00:06:03] Chloe Daniels: That’s funny that you say that because I actually have I also wrote about eating disorders, so I struggled most of my adult life with eating disorders. And in order to kind of push through that I started posting photos of myself on my blog. I don’t know if I’m allowed, I’m not allowed to cuss on this, right?

[00:06:25] Eric Brotman: No, no. This is a fam a family. We’re going to keep it clean. Our producer will make sure that doesn’t happen. Yeah,

[00:06:33] Chloe Daniels: good. So it was basically a F flattering Fridays where I would post photos of myself that were not flattering specifically to get over this idea that I needed to look perfect all the time.

And I, I really, I, it was like I had a hashtag and everything where I would purposely find the photos that made me cringe, or it’s like, Ooh, that wasn’t a good angle or, oh man, like, couldn’t they have like, you know, put the camera up a little bit so you couldn’t see my double chin. I, I would purposely post those and talk about how they made me feel.

And also you know, share, I’d even share photos. You know, I think a lot of us compare ourselves to the past and especially when it comes to appearance and weight. And so I, what got me started is I found a bunch of photos from when I was like 30 pounds lighter and I posted them. And then I explained what was really going on at the time.

And, you know, there was a lot of anxiety going on. There was a lot of obsession of our food going on. There’s a lot of issues going on. And then I posted a photo of me in like recovery. And that kinda got me started too. So really I touched all of it, man.

[00:07:42] Eric Brotman: You have, would you like to talk about religion or politics for a few minutes?

I mean, we’ve really, we’ve done all the damage we could do to the folks enjoying the show today,

[00:07:51] Chloe Daniels: Right? They’re like, man, this got heavy. No, I think we can avoid religion and politics for now.

[00:07:55] Eric Brotman: Very good. No, I prefer that too. So, so, okay. So, so you’ve had, you’ve had a journey that’s that’s been extremely public and transparent.

I actually, I looked at your website. I thought your website was awesome. I will say that you, you have eight binge-worthy podcasts or blogs on your, on your website, which I thought was fantastic, except that Don’t Retire… Graduate! was not included. So I figured I was probably the ninth. I was probably number nine in that list and you thought eight was perfect. 10 was too many, you know? But nonetheless, I thought your website was great and I, you know, certainly we’ll let everybody know in our show notes, how to, how to check out your blog and your, and your site, because there really is some, some great content there. Let’s, let’s talk a little bit about your financial journey because you know, my understanding is in a very short period of time, you were able to amass meaningful money for long-term savings.

And you’ve now coached hundreds of people on, on money issues. So let’s shift a little bit toward the financial side. Tell me how you, first of all, how you did that, because putting away that kind of money and I’ll let you quantify it, if you choose, but putting away that kind of money in a short period of time is not easy.

So tell us a little bit about that.

[00:09:03] Chloe Daniels: Yeah. So my, you know, you’ll see on my Instagram handle two years, I was able to increase it by $200,000. And that comes from, you know, not only saving money and investing money, but also from paying off debt. When I started this journey back in 2018, I had, you know, I think it was $70,000 of debt.

And that was from student loans and a car loan that I had. And really, I just really shifted my mindset from spending. Without thinking about my money too. Okay. How do I, money is a limited resource. Money is something that I get to decide where it goes also. And so my very first experiment with money that led me to do all of the things that I’ve done was I decided to track everything that I spent my money on over the course of two weeks. And I was so low tech with it. I literally had a little notebook that I still have that I would just write down every time I spent money and what it was on. And then at the end of those two weeks, I categorized it to see like, okay, where is my money actually going?

And I found out that, you know, $600 every two weeks was going to like things that were totally optional, like eating out and drinking out and ordering takeout, a lot of food and entertainment. And when I looked at that, I was kind of taken aback because. If you had asked me what my values were before I looked at my spending, I would have told you that I value travel and experiences and spending time with my family. And yet all of my money was going to things that were not that. They were just these in the moment things that were either, you know, instant gratification or the easy solution, like ordering takeout. And when I really sat down, I was like $600 would be a ticket to Germany to see one of my best friends who I haven’t seen in forever.

It’d be a ticket to New York so I could see my grandparents. Like there’s so many things I could be doing with my money that I tell myself I can’t do because I don’t have the money, but I actually, and this was the biggest realization for me is that I actually have the money. It’s just not going to the places that I want it to go to.

So that kind of just that shock of realizing where my money was going and not feeling good about it. Really helped me figure out why I wanted to do this. And from there, I just started with a zero-based budget and decided I was going to tell my money where it was going to go every month. And I just kind of went through the categories and was like, all right, what’s a reasonable amount of money to spend in these areas.

And I didn’t really know. All I knew is what I was currently spending and I decided, okay, what feels good? What feels right? What can I aim for? And obviously when anybody starts off a budget, you’re going to have to make adjustments. Like I failed at my budget probably for the first six months. And I remember my very first budget, I went over budget by $800 and I was just like, you know what? It’s okay. I, and I think a lot of people at that point would stop and be like, well, clearly this isn’t the answer, but I was like, okay, I’m just going to keep, I’m just going to keep going. I’m going to figure this out. And I’m going to, you know, try again.

And it took me probably six months to figure out a system that actually worked for me. And so that zero-based budget was huge, but what was even bigger was figuring out why I wanted to do what I was doing, because if you’re not connected to your why, I mean, I had tried budgets before I had tried, you know, the envelope method or I mean, that was the main one that I kept trying and failing at.

In my head. I think the reason that I was never able to stick to it because I didn’t have a clear reason on why I was doing something. And once I figured out, like, I want to, I’m doing this because I want to travel more, I’m doing this because I want to feel better. I’m doing this because I want to secure my future.

A really helped me get clear and it helped me stay the course. And like, I haven’t been perfect. Perfect this last couple of years, but it certainly helped. And what I would say, too, is like, we have to talk about income, too. So when I started this, I went from making like $60,000, 60 or $70,000 at a nonprofit to going to corporate and working as a consultant where I was then making $90,000.

And when I was making $90,000, that’s when I decided, okay, I think I should figure out this money thing because now I’m making decent money. Now I want to make sure it’s not just disappearing every month. And so that was definitely a huge part of it. And then in those three years, I was able to take my income from $90,000 to $130,000.

So, and that’s not even including my side hustles. Then when you look at my side hustles, it’s more about $150,000. So increasing incomes huge. And that’s definitely a big part of what allowed me to put away so much. But if I had stuck to, you know, just spending as I wanted not having a budget, all of those things, that money would just be out the door to door dash the same way that it was prior to me actually deciding to track my money.

So I think it’s a combination of a bunch of different things. But having that goal, when I first started, it was like $2,000 a month. That’s going to go to my debt. That’s that I’m going to put that on my debt and I’m not going to, you know, that’s like a bill that really helped me pay off a lot of debt really quickly.

I paid off $40,000 in two years, but then I realized in 2020, okay. It’s not just about paying off debt. It’s really about building wealth. And that’s when in 2020, too, I decided to just pay the minimums on my student loans and invest that $2,000 a month instead.

[00:14:34] Eric Brotman: Okay. You, so you came up with this budget idea and by the way, Budget to me is the B word.

You know, I mentioned to you, that’s a clean show. The B word on this show is budget because most people hate that idea because a budget’s like a diet, you know, th most of them you don’t stick to, they don’t really work. There are the, the, why is really the connection, like, what do you really want?

And how do you get it is very different than, you know, than, than how you’re making tick marks in your, in your notebook. Every time you spend something on a coffee, but you did this completely by yourself, right? You weren’t being coached. You didn’t hire anyone. You just. I’m going to figure out my way and I’m going to do it right.

[00:15:09] Chloe Daniels: Yeah. Yeah. And I probably could have figured it out faster if I had hired somebody, but I’m definitely a DIY person. And I always tell people to, you know, obviously I host classes and I coach people. I always tell people, you can do this yourself. Like I figured this out myself, but some people want a coach.

Some people want to figure it out faster. So I did a lot of trial and error and I think that really helped me learn quickly. Because you know, I, it was all on me and I, to be fair, I did a lot of research when I first started, I was really just kind of winging it, but I eventually, I was like, all right, how are other people doing this?

Like, what is, what are systems that people are using? But I always stuck to my same budget. Like I still did the zero-based budget. I still did it you know, on my terms and my way, but I agree. I think that a lot of people. Are not going to stick to a budget, especially if you don’t have feel connected to it.

Like the 50, 30, 20 rule I think is a great guideline, but at the end of the day, those are arbitrary numbers. So if you don’t feel connected to the numbers, like let’s say your, where you live is really, really important to you. And you want to spend more than 30% on your income on where you live, but you’re willing to cut back on the other things in order to make that happen.

That’s okay. But because you feel connected to why your money’s going, where it’s going and why you want to be spending your money on, you know, more than 30% on your housing, you might be better off and better able to save money on those other things, because you know, I’m doing this so I can live in this place or I’m doing this because, you know, I want to put away 50% of my income or things like that.

So. Mine was really focused on my priorities and my values. And so I focus on that. Zero-based, values-based budgeting, but I would say too, you know, I’m one of the weird people who likes data. Like I like seeing where every dollar is going. I would say not many people are that way and that they actually care to see the numbers and they care to track.

I mean, three years in, I’m still tracking every day, but there’s other ways to do it. And I think that that’s where it is nice that there’s so many people out there talking about personal finance, because if you don’t want to do a zero-based budget, you can try an anti-budget, you can try a three bucket approach.

You can try all of these other things and figure out what really works for you.

[00:17:26] Eric Brotman: I think we’re, we’re kindred spirits in a couple of ways, actually, quite a few of them. One of which is I like data too. So I’m, I’m a devotee of Quicken and have been tracking personal finance expenses for myself and our family and so forth for better than two decades. And the trends are interesting too. Once you have some history, the trends are fascinating and, and you realize that you are making trade offs when suddenly you’re paying tuition instead of instead of a certain vacation or you’re, you’re making decisions one way or the other. And I, I love the data.

Do you now, therapists often suggest journaling, there’s a power in writing things down because it solidifies it in your mind and there’s, there’s science behind that, which is not my forte. But do you encourage your coaching clients to start with that notebook approach or something similar so that they are in fact writing things down because it makes it much more concrete, much more real and much less.

[00:18:24] Chloe Daniels: Yeah, so it depends on the person. I, so in most of my client coaching sessions, our first session is a discovery call. That’s two hours. And in the first hour, we’re pretty much dedicating it to that mindset work where we’re talking about why do you want to do this? Like, why did you book this call with me today?

And a lot of the times it’s a very vague answer. That sounds like, well, I should. Like, you know, I know I might eventually going to need to retire, or I know, you know, I should have an emergency fund and there’s a lot of these shoulds. And so I really try to drill down and get to the why. And sometimes that’s not possible on a phone call with me.

Sometimes their homework is I need you to go through these questions and really think about it. Why do you want to do this? How is your life going to be different? Once your money is no longer an issue? What are you going to do with your free time? How do you envision your ideal life and those things? I always encourage them to write it down because I think it helps, like you said, solidify it, but also it’s something you can go back to.

So whenever you know, you’re wanting to fall off the wagon of whatever plan you put in place for yourself, you go back to that why. And it keeps you going and having it written down somewhere. And I always say, It doesn’t have to be writing it down. Maybe your platform is making a vision board. Maybe you prefer drawing things.

Maybe you prefer whatever it is. You can do that, but just make sure that you are connecting to it in a way that’s real. And I would say too, we also talk about, you know, their background and any of the, you know, fears or anxieties that they have around money. And there are definitely times where I’ve recommended okay, I need you to go back to this. You know, figure it out and work through some of these questions to really get to the root of it. And another one that I have a lot of clients who have a difficult time answering this question is what value, like, what are your values and what are the things more importantly that you don’t value?

And I think it’s interesting. I would have thought prior to being asked and prior to asking myself that, that I would have had a very easy, quick. But when I did that, the first time it did take me a minute, but what helped me was when I saw where my money was going, it was so clear that those were not areas that I actually valued.

I don’t value eating out, over traveling. I don’t value eating out over, you know, going to see my family. And so that kind of helped me determine what my values are and really recognize. But it took me a while to like figure out what, what are my absolute values? Where do I want my money to go above all else?

And so I think that that’s an important practice, but I think it’s also a really good one to be writing it down. And I will say too, that’s what helped me in the first couple of years that I did, this was writing about this stuff. So obviously the blog in of itself was like a live journal in a lot of ways in that I was writing through these things in processing these things. And I think my personal growth probably wouldn’t have happened to the extent that it did in that short period of time, if I hadn’t been writing about it. So I do try to really connect those two, but I also recognize everyone’s not a writer. So there’s other ways too.

You just have to figure out how to express yourself in a way that is meaningful to you and helps it stick.

[00:21:39] Eric Brotman: It requires an enormous amount ofcourage to do what you did whether, whether you realize it or not, it might feel like that was just something you did. And now you’re super comfortable with it. I imagine there was trepidation initially, and you were a little uncomfortable with that.

I, for one generally prefer not to post photos of myself that are unflattering. And, and certainly there are some, and I can look at them and laugh at them, but I’m not necessarily going to put them on a blog someplace. And that’s just one example. I mean, and, and from a budget standpoint, I look at this as the financial realm is one where I feel in very significant control.

I really understand it. It’s what I do for a living. I’ve spent 30 years doing this. If I were to put my financial budget or plan out on, on the web. Yeah, that would not frankly require much courage. I’d be very excited to say, Hey, look, look at me, which is not necessarily my stick. Anyway, however I do have, I have a nutritionist and I have a yoga therapist and I have people in my life who were very important to me, trying to help me with areas where I don’t feel as comfortable.

And so having those kinds of folks and, and for people who maybe aren’t as comfortable with money, someone like you could be an incredible resource and sounding board without it feeling like they’re being sold something because unfortunately finding a financial advisor is, is the industry is still boobytrapped.

I wish it weren’t, but it is. And so there are some really bad financial advisors out there. And the same could be said about doctors or lawyers or anybody else. But unfortunately the, the damage that’s done financially by a really poor advisor or someone who’s really done a disservice to you is incredibly damaging.

I imagine there’s a, a safety some level of safety in starting. A coaching regimen rather than necessarily going to someone who’s going to take over some of your financials for you. Is that true?

[00:23:34] Chloe Daniels: Oh, I totally agree. I I think that I agree with not only there’s a lot of predatory financial advisors out there who are not necessarily working under the fiduciary standard.

But there, the thing is people who call themselves a financial advisor, it’s not necessarily regulated. So an insurance salesman can call himself a financial advisor. You don’t have to have a certificate that says I’m a financial advisor. And I think that that’s where the problem comes in. You don’t necessarily know unless, you know, to ask, “are you working under a fiduciary standard?” And a lot of people don’t know to ask if you’re working under a fiduciary standard financial coaches are so different and that we’re, our main focus is to get to the point where you don’t really need us anymore. Like, to me, it is a successful thing when a client fires me, because in my head, I want you to be able to do this.

I want you to be able to let go of me and be like, I got this, I can manage my stuff for myself and I don’t really need you anymore. And to me, that’s a successful client. And you know, I think that when you’re working with only a financial advisor or just the CFP or somebody who’s got that really, really high level of knowledge and like, this is, this is talking about the good ones.

It’s hard sometimes for them to break it down to teach you. So they’ve gotten this expertise and they may not have never been in a situation where they struggled with money or they’ve been in your shoes. So their ability to teach you isn’t necessarily, that’s not their main job. That’s not their role.

Their role is to make sure that your money is going to the places that you know, you want it to be going to. And also they’re not going to be making decisions that will then cause you to sue them. So that’s another flip side of even when working with a fiduciary, you have to remember, they’re just making sure that they’re choosing safe enough investments for you, so that you, so that they’re, you know, they’re, they’re liable for whatever decisions that they make and whatever, you know, happens in the market.

So I think that financial coaches is kinda like you’d switch out the word coach for educator. You know, our main focus is to empower you with the knowledge that you need in order to make decisions. And that doesn’t mean you have to get rid of your financial advisor, your CFP, it just means that those conversations you’re going to be having with your CFP, financial advisor are going to look a lot more different instead of them telling you what to do, they can be more engaging. And once you understand where your money’s going, what you’re invested in, how the system works, you’re going to have a lot better conversations with people who are managing your money.

And you’re also going to have a lot better understanding of what they’re doing with your money. So as a coach, that’s my goal is that, you know, you can decide how you want to invest or manage your money however you want. That’s up to you. But I want you to at least be aware and make an educated decision on whatever it is, whether you use a robo advisor, a financial advisor, whether you manage your investments yourself, you know, at least you have that base knowledge to make informed decisions.

[00:26:35] Eric Brotman: I love that. I think you encapsulated the, the essence of the difference between coaching and advising and certainly highlighted, we could do a full show on on how to spot maybe a financial advisor who’s not actually a financial advisor. It’s a different topic in a different show, but, but a valuable one.

For the record, I actually do not try and get our clients to fire us. Like you do. So, you know, as an advisor, we, we, we’re looking certainly for. The 20 and 30 and 40 year multi-generational relationships. But I can appreciate why for you folks can graduate from needing you to feeling empowered.

And so that is a very different, that’s a different model and, and I think it’s great. So we’re, we’re sadly running out of time and I could talk to you all day, but first we need an extra credit assignment because our listeners have just been bombarded by courage and honesty and vulnerability and transparency in a way that not every guest is able to do.

And you know, you’ve really given us a whole lot and I thank you for that. What, what would the one takeaway be or the one thing that you would encourage folks to do? Having spent a half hour with us?

[00:27:39] Chloe Daniels: Can I do two??

[00:27:42] Eric Brotman: It’s your time. You can do three.

[00:27:44] Chloe Daniels: I’ll do two. If there’s one that’s related to mental health and then, or one that’s related to mental health and one that’s related to just finances in general.

So the first one, I would say, really get clear on your why, like, if you’re listening to this and you haven’t started your money journey, or you’ve been sticking to a budget or trying to stick to a budget and you failed over and over again, really get to the root of why you’re doing this because what I have found is, if you’re not clear on that why, it’s not gonna, like, it’s not, it’s just not going to work. It’s not going to stick. So I think that that’s really important. The other thing I would say is if you’re invested in an IRA or a Roth IRA or a 401k, go look at your IRA or your 401k to make sure you have actually purchased investments.

I cannot tell you how many times I’ve gotten a client who’s been, I’m doing air quotes, “investing” in their IRA for 10 years and they’ve never actually bought investments. And if that’s the case, your money is literally just sitting there. It’s not growing, it’s not doing what it’s supposed to do. So do yourself a favor and go look and make sure that you actually purchased investments.

[00:28:54] Eric Brotman: Great, actionable advice. Where can people find out more about you and your website and your blog and your business?

[00:29:02] Chloe Daniels: Yeah, so you can find me everywhere. I’m at Clo Bare money coach. So if you go to Instagram, I’m at Clo Bare money coach. That’s probably my biggest platform. Although Tik TOK is really taken off. So, but it’s C L O B a R E a not B E A R.

So find me everywhere.

[00:29:21] Eric Brotman: That’s great. Chloe you’ve been an amazing guest. And I, I failed to mention, I think that that just recently you quit your nine to five, you quit your corporate job and are now doing coaching full-time. I congratulate you on that. That’s amazing. It’s an incredible step in your journey, both financially and professionally, and it means you can help a whole lot more people.

And so I, I wish you incredible continued success. If you ever decide to expand your website to more than eight binge-worthy shows, I hope I can be seriously considered for that, especially now that you’ve been a guest, you know, but it’s been great having you and I, and I thank you so much for this and world mental health day real fast, tell us a little bit about the objective of that.

[00:30:01] Chloe Daniels: World mental health day I believe is just supposed to be spreading awareness on the importance of taking care of your mental health, as well as going out and getting the help that you need. So great way to celebrate it is to, if you’ve been looking on getting that therapist forever, or you’ve been waiting on finally looking for the right therapist, it’s a good day to go ahead and just do it, but it’s really supposed to be spreading the awareness on, you know, getting the help that you need and de-stigmatizing dealing with mental health.

[00:30:29] Eric Brotman: See that you gave three extra credit assignments. I knew you would. You’re an overachiever. The third one, the third one. See that I trick you into do it. No, it’s fine. Chloe you’ve been an awesome guest. Thank you so much for being onDon’t Retire… Graduate!

Thank you

[00:30:42] Chloe Daniels: so much for having me.

[00:30:45] Eric Brotman: And we’d like to thank all of our listeners for listening to today’s show. If you like, what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast and leave a review on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don’t Retire… Graduate! is a book available in print, kindle, and audio format, and a workbook with all the exercises to help you build your own financial freedom plan. For more information, go to Brotmanmedia.com or buy your copy and leave us a review on Amazon.

Please also check out our online financial literacy education. At BFGuniversity.com. We’ll be back next week with another installment of office hours and in two weeks with another engaging guest for now, this is your host, Eric Brotman reminding you, don’t retire. Graduate!

[00:31:25] Narrator: From this day forward, let us begin changing the way we view retirement. Today I implore you, don’t retire. Graduate. Visit our website at brotmanmedia.com to subscribe and please like us and post comments on social media. Securities offered through Kestra investment services, LLC. Kestra IS member FINRA SIPC investment advisory services offered through Kestra advisory services, LLC.

Kestra AAS and affiliate of Kestra. I S Kestra ISDN or Kestra ASR, not affiliated with Brotman financial or any other entity discussed.