Season 4, Episode 10 Debt Free or Die Trying: The Four-Step Process for Digging Yourself Out of Debt (ft. Marcus Garrett)

[00:00:00] Eric Brotman: Welcome to Don’t Retire… Graduate!: The podcast that teaches you how to advance into retirement rather than retreating. I’m your host and valedictorian, Eric Brotman and today’s guest is an author and a podcast host and an all around amazing human, Marcus Garrett. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:18] Marcus Garrett: Thank you for having me.

[00:00:19] Eric Brotman: Marcus, let me start with happy new year to you. It’s 2022, and we have to at least begin with some kind of new year’s resolution if you believe in those. Is there something on your, on your plate that’s a financial resolution to start the year?

[00:00:31] Marcus Garrett: I don’t really do resolutions, but I’ve got my goal calendar. So I guess as Homer Simpson said, my only dream is to accomplish all my goals.

[00:00:41] Eric Brotman: I like that. I like that. So so I had the privilege of being a guest on your podcast. And you know, I thought it was I thought it was amazing an amazing experience. You’re a, you’re a true pro. You’re, you have a great, great listenership. Why don’t you share a little bit about how you got started? I know you did some some analysis work and some auditing work, but, but now you’re now you’re a, an author and a podcast host. And tell us your story a little bit.

[00:01:06] Marcus Garrett: Yeah. Well, I guess it all started in 2013 and you can go further back if you want then that if you really want to see, I went, like, it goes all the way back to MySpace. I try to skip those days cause I know that might alienate some listeners that don’t even know what MySpace is. But in 2013 is when I actually started podcasting and I really couldn’t even say what we did. I’m not even sure that, I had a co-host at the time, my co-host could say what we did. We got on, we talked about Beyonce, Cardi B, everything under the sun that came to mind and we were basically just dancing around a bunch of subjects and it was supposed to be about money and personal finance.

But we had this fear that no one would listen to a money and personal finance show. Around 2016, I released my book, which you spoke to is Debt-Free or Die Trying: How I Buried Myself $30,000 in Debt and Dug My Way Out By Age 30 was version number one. And we started talking about money management and we got with a coach and those episodes always spiked, although we were in denial. And she basically just said, and challenged us in 2017, we formally incorporated. We launched the podcast, personal finance podcast in 16, and she’s like, You know, double dog dare you to do a show about money and finance and that’s all. And when we did that, that show, I think it had more downloads in three months than we had had in the previous two years. So a little bit offensive that people didn’t want to hear about our Beyonce and Cardi B analysis, but we were able to find our niche in personal finance.

[00:02:31] Eric Brotman: Well, I, I don’t think it started with Beyonce and Cardi B. I think it started with 50 Cent because the, you know, the, the, the title of the book Debt Free or Die Trying, I’m surprised you didn’t have like a, a phone call from his, his folks who said, Hey, wait a minute. That’s our thing. How’d you come up with that? Was that a, was that a play on his, on his on his work? Or was this really just sort of the idea that you were going to get out of debt if it killed you, literally?

[00:02:54] Marcus Garrett: First of all, I’ve been skedaddling around that for years and I’ve made it closing in on a decade. So allegedly that’s where it came from, I’ve maintained over the years. And actually I refined it in 2020 when I did a second release. So debt is now an acronym. It’s debt D E B T is define the problem, number one. Establish a plan, number two. Build a budget, if you’re counting in order, number three. And T is trust the process, which hopefully is also not allegedly copyrighted or something to that effect.

But I came to that really over time is the first book was like I was writing at the time I was blogging, it was haphazard and it was just a stream of conscious and it sold pretty well. The second book is more organized around putting an actual system and plan together. And that’s what I focus on. As you said, my actual career and day job we’ve been doing for probably longer than 15 years now that I’m an auditor. Also dabbled in data and financial analysis. And I try to help people establish a system. I call it using facts to form opinions instead of opinions to form facts. Because a lot of people, they only like the facts that support their opinion they already have. And so I’m always asking where’s the data, where’s the data. And, you know, looking at social media, I just noticed that a lot of people were social media rich and bank account broke when I talked to them behind the scenes.

And that’s what I try to double down on now is helping people move from goal, which everyone can come up with. It’s the new year. They’ve probably got a goal in mind right now. And by February 80% of people will have fallen off and they’ll wait another 11 months to come up with the next resolution. I try to help people, what are you going to do for those 10 months in between to actually see your goal come to fruition.

[00:04:31] Eric Brotman: Yeah. Th the gyms are full in January and empty and empty in September. I, for whatever reason, I can’t figure that out. So you’re from Texas. And when you talk about being social media rich and bank account poor, I believe in Texas that’s called big hat, no cattle.

[00:04:47] Marcus Garrett: Yeah.

[00:04:47] Eric Brotman: Is that?

[00:04:48] Marcus Garrett: I appreciate that.

[00:04:50] Eric Brotman: Well, listen, I I think, I think that’s a great, that’s a great way to say this is a lot of people get very flashy. You see a lot of people with nice cars, but they can barely afford them. Or you see people with, you know, who are trying to keep up with the Joneses, which is really one of the most damaging things. Now you’ve got a, a four step process that you’ve created. I’m going to go with allegedly, you created it entirely because that’s the way we started. Why not? This is your thing. You have a four step process for getting out of debt. I can’t think of, in almost every case when we’re working with with families, if there’s debt, it is the albatross. It is the, it is the 500 pound gorilla in the room. Right? So what are the steps? How have you how have you defined those and let’s break them down.

[00:05:35] Marcus Garrett: The first step for me, and it goes back to building a system, was defining the problem and when I was in debt, so I got most of my debt at age 22 from college, like most people. But also I had three credit cards. About 80% I want to say of my college (my parents would say a hundred percent if I hadn’t transferred schools) but about 80% of my public education was covered between my parents funding and small scholarships that I had gotten. And in Texas they have what they used to call the Texas tomorrow fund. I say it used to cause it went bankrupt, but effectively the theory behind this was you could buy credits at present day cost, and then you could go to school with that locked in rate.

So for those of you who know that college costs increased 400 to 600% and you can do the math at home and probably not miffed by why it went bankrupt. But ultimately I was able to use it and pay for about 80% of my school. And when I got out, I had never looked at my credit score. I had never, I’m not even sure I knew what my credit score was, but I’d never gone through the system, or analysis for defining a plan.

And so I started talking to… this used to be like a hush hush conversation. When I try to whisper to my friends, like, Hey, do y’all have any debt? And everybody was like, nah, man, I got rims. I was like, okay, like you have your debt? You’re like, man, do I look like I got that. I got four chains on. And I’m like, all right, you think so. And no one wants to talk about it. And so I’m like, all right, when I write these anonymous blogs, I have hundreds of comments and thousands of likes, so I think somebody has debt besides myself. And so I was like, well, maybe I can help that 22 year old who didn’t know how to have that conversation. And the first step was defining the problem.

And for me, that was going to annualcreditreport.com. Federally sanctioned. You can get your report from all three credit bureaus, Experian, TransUnion, and Equifax. And then from there, what I also see as an auditor is a lot of people don’t actually know what to do with more information. So I try to walk through what to actually do with this data.

And that’s establish a plan. I personally like, and I’m not plugging, nor am I paid by bankrate.com/calculators. I was just looking earlier. They have literally, every calculator you can think about, it starts with a mortgage calculator, but most people are going to be looking at credit cards and student loans, and they also have a mixed debt calculator that you can use, which is if you want to look at consolidation loans, we can explore that if you want to. I know some people feel some type of way about consolidation loans, and I’m not one of them. From there, you establish your plan. Okay. Now I know how much debt I had, which I didn’t know and a lot of people actually don’t even know. Now, what are we going to do about that?

And this is why I put budget as a third step. A lot of people start with a budget. They do it abstractly. They don’t even know why they’re putting it together. So now, you know how much debt you have. Now you know your plan. Build a budget around that. And I like to automate it as far as tracking. I use mint. Again, not… I use mint just because I’m old. Because everybody’s using all these new tools. I logged in and I’m just too lazy to transfer it to anything new and they work for me.

So kind of the theme here is finding the tools that work for you. I automate everything. If all possible. I automate myself out of the process. I’ve got about, I want to say six to seven accounts right now, they’re all automated. They transfer I pay myself on the seventh for the business. Everything else is pretty much paid by the first with rare exception, and usually by choice. It’s just because I don’t like paying bills early. Like I could. I have a new car now. I say I, but the Mrs helped me get it. So we have a new car that’s technically hers. I could pay it early. I just don’t like giving them money early. So I automate everything except for the ones that I want to log in to actually pay.

And then fourth step is T: trust the process. So just to run that back, define the problem, establish a plan, build a budget around that plan and problem, and then T trust the process, which for me is automation.

[00:09:19] Eric Brotman: Marcus, there’s a lot of wisdom in that, particularly probably the biggest nugget of wisdom is that what’s yours is hers and what’s hers is hers. So as a married man, I understand that. So yes. Good to, good to give the lady the props she needed for that. Defining the problem makes sense and that’s true of almost anything. I mean, if you have a gambling issue, a drug issue, all the kinds of things that are addictive. And I think spending can be an addiction. I think shopping and retail therapy and whatever you choose to call it, whatever lipstick you put on the pig. If you’re spending more than you make, it’s, it’s a form of addiction, I think.

And so once you’ve defined that and you said, all right, I got an issue. And you establish a plan. I know you have a couple of different payment strategies that you use to establish that plan. And I’m curious what they are. I mean, I certainly, we, we use these with, with clients and often with, with our clients’, you know, grown children who often are facing this for the first time. It, you know, you use mint, I use Quicken cause I’m also old and also don’t want to change. So I totally appreciate that. But what are the kinds of strategies that you advocate in terms of, in terms of tackling that, that burden?

[00:10:24] Marcus Garrett: Well, I’m going to wrap that budget story cause it happened recently with the car and I think it’s actually a good example. So I’m actually going to start with the budget on being a hypocrite because I’m going out of order in my own system but I think folks will understand why. So for example, my so I had a Dodge charger before which now the fiance tells me was immature for my age and you know, I was going through a midlife crisis, according to her. According to her, she found me in the streets in the ditch and she has saved me and rescued me and put me in a better vehicle. And what happened was the charger. It had a mechanical issue in the middle of the pandemic. Like on three different occasions I think I spent about $6,000 trying to keep this car up and running because I did have an emotional attachment to it, I’m not gonna lie. So I probably should have sold it a dollar number one, but around $6,000, I’m like, there might be a day where I go downstairs and this car is a V8 or a V12, actually a V12 paperweight.

So I started looking around middle of the pandemic. This is actually a very rare time where vehicles are appreciating and, and, you know, I don’t think that’s happened. It hasn’t happened in my lifetime. And so the car was actually, it had held more value than it ever had. And really the only thing holding me back from selling it was the emotional attachment. So the last time I went in, I think the dealership felt a little, sorry for me, they were like, Hey, we’ll buy this car off of you. I was like, no, no, you can’t take my baby. Yeah. They offered me, I think I want to say 18,000, but let’s just say that for a number to work with. And I was like, no, it’s my baby.

They got it up and running again. I drove it home. I think it didn’t start, you know, whatever. And so I was like, okay, maybe I should seriously consider selling this car. So I tell them Mrs. who is overly thrilled. This vehicles finally going away. I was planning to raise children in this car and hand it down to my grandchildren myself. But we had different emotional attachment and she’s like, well, why don’t we get a luxury vehicle? A four-door SUV. First of all, I think she’d been doing analysis for three months, you know, chess, not checkers. So she’s already got this all planned out. Even though it was the first time I bring the conversation to her. And I’m like, we can’t do that. We don’t have the budget for it. Excuse, excuse, excuse, but really it’s emotional attachment.

And I think this is what people go through. And I was talking to a friend about who’s been married 10 years longer than me. And he’s like, why don’t you get a certified pre-owned? You can fit that in your budget. She can get what she wants. It’ll be a good vehicle. You get the personal finance, you can maintain your facade as a personal finance expert, and she can get the luxury vehicle she wants.

Y’all can both walk away happy. I think you can get this in your price range that you’re, that worked for you, and you can use your car as, look at your car not as an emotional attachment, but as the down payment towards his vehicle. You were paying on it anyway. And this car was actually paid off at that time. So don’t see that as money gained or money lost, it was sunk anyway. And so long story short or short story long, depending on how you feel about this, we were able to get that vehicle and he was right. Went certified pre-owned. Was able to find the price range that I like and the vehicle that she liked and come to a compromise on that so both parties walked away happy, and I’m still able to claim to be a personal finance expert. And you know, that would not have been possible without knowing my numbers. And in this case, you know, I was debt free. I just, I didn’t want to take any more on, but interest rates were, I think this one’s 2%. My previous car, because I had a good credit score was 1.9.

This all starts to come together. Again, some people are going to be like, whoa, you know, you’re a personal finance expert. You should have, should have paid cash. I only believe in austerity. You know, Hey, I’m not gonna lie to you. I would’ve liked that route too, but even certified pre-owned, we did have to take a small loan out and I was able to use that cash down from the car.

So I tell that story one, because it’s recent and on the front of my frontal lobe. The debt strategies that I had, and this is 22. Now I’m 39. So you can have 17 years to start to get my, my theories correct. So at 22, I would have never been able to even fathom that conversation like that. The friend that I talked to I also consider a mentor cause further ahead in both life and career. And then, you know, your network starts to build, you know, all these things start to cohese, if you will, come over like glue over time. So the wisdom came from, as a friend told me, the key to overnight successes the first 10 years. So I was able to be successful in getting this certified pre-owned vehicle because I paid off those debts and I entered this four step plan.

That plan that you asked about, that’s why I want to set the foundation was, step one is I used to just pay with whatever’s left. Literally anything that was left after the money, I just started putting that towards the credit cards. I don’t even think I had a snowball or an avalanche. It’s just like, I’m going to extra money, it’s going to go towards my debt. And here’s the thing about the whatever is left plan. There’s never anything left. Like most people I was living paycheck to paycheck. As you say, keeping up with the Joneses. I was in Denver. I was also keeping up with the Denver because Denver was Denver is like Austin.

And I guess like every major city. I’ll give this example, and then I’ll pause for any follow-up questions. Is when I moved to Denver, my rent was $700. I never left that apartment. And when I left, it was like 1300. And so, you know, my, my paycheck did not grow like that rent did. Let me put it that way. So that whatever’s left theory, the simplest, but the least effective. Any questions about anything we talk there and I’m gonna talk about the more effective strategy.

[00:15:44] Eric Brotman: Yeah, no, I don’t have questions. In fact, you know, we normally encourage people to pay themselves first and then use what’s left to enjoy rather than going the other way around. You know, you talked about building a budget. I consider the budget, the B word. It’s a clean show. So that’s the only B word we use on this one. But I think people hate budgets. They hate budgets like they hate diets. What you really have to do, I think, is create habits and create good behaviors and have a why behind it, rather than just saying, I can only spend X dollars on groceries this week. I think that becomes extremely difficult and it’s hard to follow. It’s kind of like counting calories. It’s hard to follow to the, to the letter. So I like that you have some other suggestions other than the the, the pay down debt with whatever’s left. Cause I agree with you, some months there’s something left, but a lot of times there’s not for a lot of households. So what’s the better way?

[00:16:37] Marcus Garrett: Yeah. If you don’t, if you don’t make it a priority, as you said, paying yourself first, it’s not. It becomes an inconvenience. It becomes a painful place. And so I have four steps in the book, but the, the most effective one I’ll just skip ahead is to, I go back to automate the process. So I formed that by going to bankrate.com/calculators, who I’m not paid by. I use their debt payment calculator. And I said that here’s the time that I wanted to be out of debt. At that time I was 27 and I was like, by 30 I want to be debt free. That was the goal. That’s the declaration. That’s the new year’s resolution. I could have just stopped there and many years before that, I had. But this was the first time I had, I think at that time dating me, I think I used a PDF.

So I think I printed out that PDF of that plan and it said, you know, it was probably probably $750 a month or something like that for the next three years, 36 months. It’ll tell you exactly how much you need to pay each month. And I automated that. I logged into my bank account and I said every month, this is the amount of money that will go towards paying off this debt because it was a priority to me.

And two things happen from there. A lot of people are going to be like, oh, I can’t make that sacrifice. That’s a step down, yada, yada yada. The first one to three months where maybe painful because it is an adjustment. And then I forgot about it. I forgot about it so much that by the time that 36th month rolled around and I would make lump sum payments, I would pay extra and over, from time to time. I still followed that. If I had more money, I would pay towards it. But it’s funny that people can always adjust to income increases, lifestyle inflation, but they think it’s impossible to deflate and put a plan and system impossible. You get, you, you’d be amazed what you’ll adjust to.

And I just adjusted to, this is now the money that I will live on. And when that 36th month came, my debt was paid off. And then I think in the 37th month, I just noticed that $750 back in my account. I was like, oh, that’s weird. That’s strange. I’m not used to seeing money left in there. That’s that’s suspicious, as Cardi B would say, going back to that.

And I went and looked and my debt was paid off. And I remember I told, I have to say the girlfriend, not the fiance. It was a girlfriend at that time was like, oh, my debts paid off. And she’s like, you mean that thing that you’ve been fighting and crying over for 36 months, it’s paid off? I’m like, oh yeah, I think it was like a Friday. And she’s like, we should celebrate that. Like we should do something. Like that’s the point. It had become such a natural occurrence to me. I didn’t even think to celebrate it. It was just automated and I had bought in to trusting the process.

[00:19:04] Eric Brotman: Well, once you were debt free, she would agree to become your fiance. I mean, let’s, let’s call it what it is. When, when you’re in debt. It’s very difficult to get someone to say yes, Marcus, you know?

[00:19:13] Marcus Garrett: That’s true.

[00:19:13] Eric Brotman: I mean, you’re marrying somebody’s credit score. Not just, not just her parents and her and her in-laws and what have you, but you’re also marrying their credit score and their, and their debts too. So. All right. Well, I like a lot of this. I, in fact, all of it makes good sense. The first book I wrote almost 15 years ago was called Debt-Free for Life. And so we’re, we’re kindred spirits in that regard. But I’m not sure that all debt is bad debt. So do you feel like it’s an incredibly important for your balance sheet to show a zero at all costs? Or do you feel there’s some debts that are either forms of leverage or arbitrage or other opportunities where once you get in out of your, a budgeting 1.0, and you get into your finance 2.0, that it does make sense to use debt potentially to create additional wealth?

[00:20:01] Marcus Garrett: It’s an excellent question and I have to answer it two ways. The short answer is yes, but the problem for me was I didn’t even have that mindset, knowledge, you know, you don’t know what you don’t know at 20. So I was the debt-free by any cost. And I, I remembered, I looked back at that probably my mid thirties by that time cause you know, I was excited to be out of debt and the, I paid off $30,000 in debt, plus, you know, whatever that interest would have been over time, no opportunity cost that I gained back. But now or then I should say, mid thirties, I reflected back on how much of life I actually missed out. And probably even more now because we’re in the middle of a pandemic and it’s like, man, I, you missed out on permanent events. Like I missed weddings. I missed out on, so I moved for a job so I can make more money. As a 40% increase. I went from $50,000 to $70,000. Really enjoyed and loved that job. That’s how I landed in Denver. But it’s almost like, and I call it, I watched my friends grow up on social media. I watched their kids grow up on social media. There was events in life that I could not get back because of this, you know, hustle culture, if you will. I call it almost toxic productivity because that’s all I was focused on.

 But it took me going through that to kind of see that wisdom. And so the second way I would answer your question is tailoring the plan to what’s to you. What’s important to you. So that’s why I say, you know, establish a plan. My current tagline now, because someone’s working with me on marketing too, is like an auditor in your corner.

And so it’s, you know, cause it’s usually, it’s an auditor against you. It’s, you know, what’s important to you? Like I can’t really answer that question. At 27 paying off all my debt by any means possible was what was important to me. It was my singular focus. I cut off cable, I cut my own hair. This is all literal things I talked about in the book.

And I was saving like a few thousand a year. Obviously I stopped taking trips. I obviously skipped weddings and things like that. I’m sure friends felt some type of way. And I, I hit the goal, you know, mission accomplished. But at what costs or sacrifice? So that’s why it’s, I think now more important for people to tailor a plan that’s important to you at that time, meeting you where you are, I call it.

You said it, but it took me nearly 40 and running two of my own businesses now, is the rich call it leverage. And I never, that’s a quote I heard from actually a podcast. And I was like, I never, in a million years would have thought of that, that way. Like you said, cashflow management and you know, how can I leverage this reasonable debt or low interest debt to move my business forward?

Which is the things I do now. Like I might take on low-interest debt for return on investment. The ads is what I’m thinking of. If I run this thousand dollar ad and I make a $3,000 profit, that’s a good use. And then I can pay off that credit card in full the next month. And now I’ve gained however many followers and business and leads. That’s leverage.

Whereas before I was like, oh, you can’t take on debt. You can’t take on debt. So I can’t run this ad cause I don’t have the money to do so. I just didn’t have the mental capacity to think in that way. And that was a limitation of my thinking. So you don’t know what you don’t know.

[00:23:01] Eric Brotman: So you talked about automating the process, which I think is incredibly useful and important. And for most folks, the more you automate the less you have to torture yourself psychologically, ever every month, when it comes time to write a check or, or make an online transfer or something like that. There was one step that I thought maybe was missing from this and I’m going to challenge you on it.

Nowhere mentioned, I mean, you talk about defining the problem, establishing the plan, building the budget and trusting the process. There’s nothing in there about accountability. Some people can do this themselves much like trusting the process at the gym. They know that they can, they can work out for 45 minutes a day and get healthier. Other people need a trainer. They need the accountability partner. Somebody to, to have to report back on in three months and say, yes, I made my $750 payments for these three months and here’s where I am. And, and, you know, rah rah, I’m getting there. So where does accountability fall for those maybe who aren’t self accountable because not everyone is.

[00:23:59] Marcus Garrett: That’s an excellent question. And you’re, you’re right. I have missed on that perhaps in the book and it’s partially my personality. So just as difficult, why I’m an auditor. So just as difficult as or, I guess, easy, actually it was for me to get into debt because I tell people, getting into debt is fun, exciting. It’s trips, it’s bottles. It’s chains. It’s rims, as I talked about, as many of my friends. You know, that that’s fun. Getting out of debt is usually going to take twice as long because you need that plan or system. And for me, I’m just stubborn. So when I finally do decide, so if I decide I’m going to go out and ball out of control, I’m going to buy everything that I feel falls under balling out of control.

And in that case, I was just putting on credit cards. Equally so, when I said, you know what, I will never put myself in this position again, which I talk about in the book was rock bottom, I was just as stubborn towards that plan. I’m sure my friends are like, what did he turn into Batman up there? Cause first he was out partying all the time and now he’s just saving the city.

All he does is go to work and he’s paying down allegedly this debt-free plan plan because they didn’t know what I was doing. I just disappeared. I fell off the grid. So that’s part of the reason why that gap is missing. And I’ll answer the accountability in again, two ways.

So I do think accountability is positive, but I lean towards a professional. It’s a little bit bigger network now. So this might, this concern that I have might not be as big. But what I saw on the cons of accountability is I think a lot of people they’ll go to the Facebook group. They’ll go to their friends and family, like, Hey, I’m going to get out of debt. And consciously or subconsciously that causes people who are not on that same plan to feel some type of way.

So like you say, with the diet, you start slimming down, you’re going to the gym and you’re sweating and they see you on Facebook, you know, getting it in, hashtag living the life. And they’re like, man, they’re like, I didn’t go to the gym this week. And then the week you don’t go, they’re like, Hmm. Oh, should you be eating that? You know? So like they kind of just subconsciously nitpick at your plan. I don’t do a lot of public declarations. I do a lot of, Hey, I accomplished this. Like the race is already over. Whereas as if the folks aren’t running that race with you, or they’re, it’s easier for them to nitpick how you’re running the race or how you’re lifting the weight than it is to join you on the race or lift the weights with you.

And I mean, you know, all the stats bear that out, you know, at seven 60% of people live paycheck to paycheck, I think it’s, you know, Still that it’s roughly that amount, even for people who make six figures, I think it drops down to 40%. And so most people aren’t on your plan. And so if you are going to find accountable, like you said, coach, trainer, I would find a professional to do it, is what I lean towards because sometimes those small groups and networks, they can be self sabotaging in my experience and even from my observations.

Yeah, I’ll give this example because everyone can relate to it. It’s like when you plan the trip and the group chat is filled with 10 people and as the trip gets closer, no one cancels. The chat just gets more and more quiet. And then suddenly you’ve got to cover the deposit by yourself.

[00:26:57] Eric Brotman: Well, or maybe you need to pick different friends, Marcus, I don’t know. You know, pick people who’ve already put the deposit down. Yeah. All right. Well, I I’m, I’m disappointed that we’re almost out of time because, you know, I think there’s so much here and I want to make sure our listeners know how to get in touch with you, how to get a copy of 50 Cents’s book. No, wait how to get a copy of your book and also to get an extra credit assignment from you. So let’s do the extra credit assignment first. What is the, what is the one action item? The one takeaway that folks can use today as a as a springboard, particularly in light of the fact that it’s a new year? W what’s what’s that number one piece of advice?

I actually

[00:27:37] Marcus Garrett: in preparation for my final book, I read 18 other personal finance books to make sure that mine wouldn’t suck. And the one that I recommend now is J L Collins, The Simple Path to Wealth. Because as I’ve talked about earlier, like, You know, most people aren’t gonna read 18 books.

I’m not even sure how I read 18 books. It was pre pandemic, fortunately. And so if you only were going to choose one book this year, I would, I would put that into your new year’s resolution as New Year’s Resolution A. Add that and get that done. I thought that book was a very very, all encompassing and easy to read and digest for, I say, across the board. Although my favorite book is The Millionaire Next Door for the folks that might be a little bit more, it’s a little bit more complicated read, but I think it’s a better read.

[00:28:21] Eric Brotman: It’s a great book.

[00:28:21] Marcus Garrett: That would be my. And then for folks who want both of those, I give those reviews away for free and we can talk about where they can find that.

[00:28:29] Eric Brotman: That’s great. And so, so on the reading list, we have Millionaire Next Door. Give me the name of the other one again?

[00:28:35] Marcus Garrett: J. L. Collins, The Simple Path to Wealth.

[00:28:37] Eric Brotman: The Simple Path to Wealth. And then there’s also this little book called Debt Free or Die Trying that I think people should pick up. And while they’re at it, hopefully Don’t Retire… Graduate! will get in that Amazon cart too. So let’s buy four books, not one. What do you think?

[00:28:51] Marcus Garrett: Yeah, yeah. To the, I have an Amazon page with all these books linked. So you can get the review, you can find the books, you can find what I’m reading. I basically update this reading list. I kind of, a challenge my father gave to me when I was a teenager, actually he likes to challenge me before I’m ready, was to use your twenties, to learn. Thirties to apply. Forties to teach and mentor.

So for folks who, flashback, remember, I’m 39. I’m moving into that mentor phase. And so I see my role now is to start giving back and paying it forward. And so I’m sharing these resources and tools for free.

[00:29:20] Eric Brotman: All right, Marcus. Well. I just turned 50 and there’s nothing in that landscape for me. W w where do I fit into that landscape? Do I ride off of the sunset or do I have a role?

[00:29:28] Marcus Garrett: Actually, fifties, someone wrote into the fifties is to enjoy.

[00:29:32] Eric Brotman: Oh, well, then here I am.

[00:29:33] Marcus Garrett: Just enjoy it, man.

[00:29:34] Eric Brotman: I made it.

[00:29:36] Marcus Garrett: Exactly! You’re trying to still run the race. You should be celebrating. Hoist the trophy.

[00:29:41] Eric Brotman: You’re right. I’m dropping the mic and I’m done. This is my last episode. So where can people check out the Marcus Garrett Show?

[00:29:48] Marcus Garrett: Wherever you’re listening to this, you can find the Marcus Garrett Show. I’m also on YouTube. So I do video, but I’m on apple, Spotify. So please find me. Every week we have entertaining conversations with your favorite influencers and entrepreneurs about life after debt. Yeah, for that free giveaway. I mentioned it’s actually from my most popular segment, I want to say ever, but like you said, I hope I have another mountain to climb. But I did a piece on how much debt can you afford on a 30, 50 or a hundred thousand dollars salary that still does numbers to this day. It’s my platinum album. You can find that at themarcusgarrett.com/salary. That’s a free giveaway. Again, that’s themarcusgarrett.com/salary.

[00:30:29] Eric Brotman: Terrific. We’ll put that in our show notes. And, and I thank you, Marcus. You were a great guest. It was great to talk to you again. I wish you continued success with the book, with the podcast, with, with everything.

And thanks for being on Don’t Retire… Graduate!

[00:30:41] Marcus Garrett: Thanks for having me.

[00:30:43] Eric Brotman: I’d like to thank all of you for listening. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast and leave a review on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Please also check out our books, workbooks and online financial literacy resources at Brotmanmedia.com.

We’ll be back next week with another installment of office hours and in two weeks with another engaging guest. For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman reminding you: don’t retire. Graduate!

[00:31:06] Narrator: From this day forward, let us begin changing the way we view retirement. Today, I implore you: don’t retire. Graduate. Visit our website brotmanmedia.com to subscribe and please like us and post comments on social media.

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