Practice Makes Perfect: Practicing for Retirement While You’re Still Working

[00:00:00] Cody Niedermeier: Hello everyone. And welcome back to BFGs next webinar. If you’re tuning in for the first time, my name is Cody Niedermeier and I’m the host. I’m a CFP candidate, an associate at our office who works directly with our lead advisors. And I was lucky enough to be chosen to host these webinars. I don’t know why, but Today we are lucky enough, I believe it’s the third time we have our guest, Eric Brotman, who is actually the founder of BFG financial advisors. He’s the host of Don’t Retire… Graduate!. I could go on for the next hour with all of his accolades, but I don’t want to bore them, Eric, but I just want to say welcome.

[00:00:41] Cody Niedermeier: Thank you for being back on the show and really appreciate you being here.

[00:00:45] Eric Brotman: You it’s great to be here. This, this webinar series was was something we dreamed up last year and to your credit, you have taken it on and nailed it. So thank you for, for taking that role and, and let’s, let’s see if we can share some good ideas today with with a whole bunch of folks who signed up.

[00:01:00] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah, no, but the numbers seem to keep increasing. So I think we must be doing something right. But it’s been a lot of fun, you know, I was nervous going into the first one, but I think each and every time we’re we’re getting more comfortable. And most importantly, we, you know, we’re providing information on topics that people have questions about.

[00:01:16] Cody Niedermeier: As we’ve seen with follow-up questions after the webinars, during the webinars, and we’re going to keep trying to provide those resources for everyone and, you know, really try to help people. But as we can see today, we’re going to be talking about practicing. Everybody loves to practice, but practicing really does get you closer to perfection and the idea of practicing for retirement now will only set us up for success later. So the first slide as always a little disclosure, everyone loves the disclosure side, but we got to have that included. So here it is. And I guess just a general standpoint of what is, or what does it mean to practice for retirement?

[00:01:58] Eric Brotman: There are a couple of different ways to define that Cody. One is to practice financially and one is to begin practicing psychologically and logistically. So on the financial side, what it means is that if you’re planning to retire at whatever point that is in your life and you anticipate that your income might be lower than it is today in retirement, which unfortunately is the case for a lot of people.

[00:02:25] Eric Brotman: In fact, darn near most people, it’s very tough to replace your entire income. And it’s certainly something we strive to help our clients do, but it’s, it’s really a heavy lift. Sometimes it’s not easy. So if you’re planning on taking a pay cut, but you’re also trying to figure out when you’re going to be able to, to sort of pull the plug on your full-time employment.

[00:02:43] Eric Brotman: Maybe you want to do something part-time or side hustle or moonlighter or. It’s important to start living. Like that’s what you make now and to see how it works so that if you’re making $10,000 a month in your career and you’re planning to retire and it’s going to be at $6,000 a month, that’s a pretty significant pay cut for anyone.

[00:03:00] Eric Brotman: So the question is, could you live on 6,000 a month? And that’s what it means to practice. It means literally to take the net difference and park it in a savings account someplace where you don’t see it and do that for six months or a year and see how it goes. Are you able to do this or do you wind up having to dip into it?

[00:03:19] Eric Brotman: Because if you’re dipping into that savings fund, it means you’re not ready financially to retire. The other planning the other situation here is really more logistics. It’s figuring out what you want to be when you go. I love, I love asking somebody, you know, 50 or 60 or 70 years old, what do you want to be when you grow up?

[00:03:36] Eric Brotman: Because we haven’t been asked that since we were seven. Yeah. So when we talk about that, it means finding the things that, that create passion for us. It’s not enough to have a bucket list. It’s not enough to say I want to see these five places before I die, because you could be retired for 30 years. You need much more than a bucket list to have a reason to get out of bed every morning.

[00:03:57] Eric Brotman: And so we encourage people to practice what they’re going to be when they grow up for at least a year, if not more. And we encourage people to practice financially if there’s going to be a pay cut, if you’re, if you’re fortunate enough to be financially independent and you’re not going to have a reduction in income.

[00:04:12] Eric Brotman: You can skip that part. You’re good. Now it’s just about figuring out what you’re going to do and how you’re going to spend your time.

[00:04:18] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah. And I think that leads into actually how we’re going to end today’s webinar with, you know, the idea of graduation and really defining that rather than, Hey, we made it to retirement, but you know, we’re graduating into retirement.

[00:04:31] Cody Niedermeier: And what does graduation look like for you? But I think that’s a great overview for us to really dive in and dissect some of those things that you mentioned. So. Building on that, how much money do I need to retire? You know? Do I need a million dollars? Like, is, is there one number for me that, you know, once I hit that, I can say, yo, I’m, I’m good.

[00:04:50] Cody Niedermeier: Or, you know, is it the classic answer of it depends.

[00:04:56] Eric Brotman: Well, it does depend, but, but here’s what I can tell you. How much will you need? A lot more than you think. And there’s a couple of reasons for that one. You’re going to live longer. We’re all going to live longer than we imagine. Okay. Partly that’s because of healthcare or advances in technology.

[00:05:10] Eric Brotman: Partly it’s just because that’s the way the demographics point, particularly for folks who are of means we’re going to live longer than we expected. And the fact that our parents or grandparents died at a certain age does not necessarily mean we’re going to, so that’s first. Second, life’s going to be more expensive than we expect.

[00:05:28] Eric Brotman: And what I can tell you is people who retired 20 years ago with any type of fixed income retired before. A cell phone bill or streaming services or all of the things that we now include in our budget because they have to be, we need internet at home. Well, that wasn’t necessary 20, 25 years ago. So people who retired thinking I’ve got all my bills covered cause I’ve got my, my home phone. You know, now every two years, people want to replace that technology. And so things have gotten more expensive for retirees over the last decades and that’s always been true and I’m confident that that’s going to continue to be true. And so how much do you need to replace all of your income?

[00:06:08] Eric Brotman: If you’re making a hundred thousand dollars a year and you want to replace a hundred thousand dollars a year, let’s assume there are there’s no pension. So few people have them these days. Let’s assume there’s no pension and let’s assume we’re not relying on social security. Let’s assume you had to do it completely on your own.

[00:06:24] Eric Brotman: How much money would you need if you were going to live on 4%, for example, and 4% is dangerous because rules of thumb are not always reliable. So, but let’s use it as a barometer. If you’re going to live on 4% of your nest egg and you need a hundred thousand dollars a year, your nest egg has to be two and a half million dollars.

[00:06:44] Eric Brotman: That’s a lot. And if social security is going to provide 30,000, then you only need to replace 70 with your nest egg. It’s still a heavy lift. And the other thing is you have to remember inflation. We’ve got an entire generation who doesn’t remember inflation. It’s been so low. It’s been almost a non-issue, but inflation will erode the value of a dollar.

[00:07:03] Eric Brotman: And we’re printing money in this country faster than we can, then we can distribute it. So as a result, the value of a dollar is likely to go to. So if you’re making a hundred thousand dollars today, but you want to retire in 20 years or 25 years, just the value of a dollar may be cut in half. Over that period of time, you might need $200,000 a year then to live exactly like you live today.

[00:07:28] Eric Brotman: Now, just because you make that a hundred thousand dollars doesn’t mean you need to live on it because some of that, ideally you’re using towards safe. So if you’re putting 20 cents on the dollar away, if you’re saving $20,000 a year, because it’s going into your 401k or savings accounts or non-qualified investments or other things, and you don’t need a hundred thousand dollars to live on, you only need 80 because you’ll stop doing the 20,000 of savings.

[00:07:52] Eric Brotman: So the bigger your savings rate, the easier it is to catch your target. So your better behavior early makes makes your lifestyle much easier to replicate later.

[00:08:05] Cody Niedermeier: It’s interesting perspective, just looking at, you know, what you’re putting towards your 401k as a savings and, you know, mentally, you know, I’ve had discussions with people and they’re like, oh no, I’m investing that.

[00:08:16] Cody Niedermeier: Like I’m living off that, but you’re not like, that’s the idea behind that is to save for retirement. And then once you actually reach retirement, you know, those funds are yours rather than continuously being put in there. So that’s a different perspective that I think a lot of people I think that’ll resonate.

[00:08:31] Cody Niedermeier: And then building off something you actually said earlier with, you know, pensions really aren’t around kind of brought up the three legged stool that we like to talk to clients about of, you know, having a pension versus social security versus, you know, your savings, but with how times have changed and not being sure exactly what social security will be like or look specifically like for me, when I retire, I’m a little bit further away than you, Eric.

[00:08:56] Eric Brotman: Thanks for noticing.

[00:08:58] Cody Niedermeier: Had to put that one in there.

[00:08:59] Eric Brotman: Appreciate you.

[00:09:00] Cody Niedermeier: The idea of, you know, not really that looks like, you know, not knowing if they’ll have a pension or not, most likely not. And then it’s really just a reliance on yourself and what you’re doing today versus having those other sources of income.

[00:09:16] Eric Brotman: This is one of the reasons why rules of thumb are so dangerous because when when social security and pensions, particularly pensions, when they were prevalent, when big companies you worked for them for 30 years, you got a gold watch, a pension, and you wrote off in the sunset. You also retired at 65 and you were dead at 72.

[00:09:34] Eric Brotman: You didn’t have to pay for a whole lot for very long. Th the problem with that is that in those days, the rule of thumb was you needed to have about 10% of that third leg in your own personal savings. You had to save about 10% of what you would need retirement today. It’s 85. A little bit different.

[00:09:53] Eric Brotman: So we’re basically all on our own. Pension still exists in, in public space and public sector. So if you’re a state employee or a federal employee, there are still pensions. But for most people in private enterprise, they don’t exist anymore. And so you’re not going to rely on an employer to provide those benefits for you.

[00:10:10] Eric Brotman: You really have to do it yourself, right. Employers insent employees to participate and sort of to create good habits, whether it’s a 401k match or an HSA match or a profit sharing contribution or other things it’s important to not only understand how they work and to take advantage of them while you’re, while you’re working, but also to make sure you vest.

[00:10:30] Eric Brotman: You know, gen Z is like the jump jobs every 18 months. And unfortunately that means they never vest in anything. So while it’s important to understand free agency has it has its benefits. It also has its drawbacks because the dollars that your employer puts in on your behalf are critically important to your savings rate.

[00:10:50] Eric Brotman: And if you leave an employer before they vest, you, you, you yield them. It’s like a penalty to leave your employer

[00:10:57] Cody Niedermeier: yeah, I think it might be beneficial just to kind of define what vesting means. I think there might be some people listening that think, oh, that money’s in my account and you know, it’s, it’s mine and that’s it. But that’s not necessarily the case when it comes to the term vesting.

[00:11:13] Eric Brotman: Correct. When you fund a retirement account with your own money, you do an employee salary deferral, that money is always what’s called vested, meaning it always belongs to you. Now it may go up and down in value, depending how you invest it, but your contributions and what they either grow or shrink to become.

[00:11:31] Eric Brotman: That’s your money. And if you leave the employer, it’s still your money. You can take it with you. And there’s various ways to do that. On the other hand, if the employer is making a match, let’s say you’re doing 6% to your 401k. And the, and the employer says we’ll match 50 cents on the dollar up to 6%.

[00:11:46] Eric Brotman: So they’re essentially giving you 3%. That means you’re contributing 9% of your 401k, but only six of it is yours. The other three, the company’s putting into your account on your behalf. It’s on your. But also on your statement, it’ll tell you whether you’re vested a hundred percent or 50% or 20% or zero.

[00:12:04] Eric Brotman: And there’s several different vesting schedules, but essentially what vesting means is the money is now officially yours and the employer. Can’t take it back. If you leave employers can’t take money back from your account just because they feel like it. I mean, this isn’t like they’re giving it to you and taking it away.

[00:12:19] Eric Brotman: Like some kind of. But if one of the reasons why these plans are effective for employers is because it can create longer tenures for some of the employees. So really everybody wins. If someone’s employed at the same place for a little bit longer, the employee wins because the employer contribution fast and become the heirs.

[00:12:37] Eric Brotman: The employer wins because they don’t have a lot of turnover and don’t have to train as many people and so forth. So it really is a symbiotic relationship if it’s done. Right. But if you see on your statement that you’re 50% vested, you’ll also notice that there’s an employer contribution line and an employee contribution line, and there may be other sub subsets, the employee ones always 100%. Day one. The employer one usually is not. There are some employers that have plans. We’ve, we’ve, we’re part of a financial wellness program where the employer actually vests a hundred percent immediately. That’s incredibly rare.

[00:13:11] Cody Niedermeier: Okay. Well, I think we’ve kind of dived into it a little bit, but it kind of leads us into our next our next slide of, you know, really diving in and just looking from the financial aspect of practicing for retirement and what that might look like.

[00:13:27] Eric Brotman: Yeah, we talked about that a little bit already and, and it has to do with behavior. It has to do with spending habits. When you’re working, particularly if you are making significantly more than you spend, there’s a tendency to buy things just because you feel like it and to not worry about it. And that’s a lovely freedom.

[00:13:46] Eric Brotman: That’s a great place to be, to say, you know what, I’m going out to dinner tonight. And I’m not on a budget where I, where I care. That’s not normal by the way, but for those folks who are in that situation, It’s it’s wonderful for those folks who are in that situation. The problem is that while an abundance mentality is very, very important and it’s, it’s a healthy way to live, it also may not be permanent abundance if it’s not repeatable. And what I mean by that is if your salary, if your income is predictable, you can live like it’s predictable. That’s great. Some people don’t feel that way. Some people are either in sales or they’re in small business where they may or may not make the same money.

[00:14:21] Eric Brotman: Other people may not feel secure in their job. They’re concerned that they may not keep their job. And so there’s a, there’s some of that issue. But assuming you’re secure in your position and you feel very comfortable with your income and you’re upwardly mobile, there’s a tendency to spend most of, there’s a tendency to spend most of what you make after what you’ve saved. And quite frankly, as long as you’ve saved the right percentage and you’ve paid yourself first, which I know we’ve talked about on the show before, if you’ve paid yourself first and then and then you’ve spent whatever’s left, that’s fine. Just understand that, that, unless you’re on track to hit a hundred percent of your preretirement income (net of savings) at the point in time where you want to be financially independent, you will have to practice a pay cut. And again, Cody, we talk about rules of thumb all the time. The rule of thumb used to be you only needed to save 10% of your own money.

[00:15:15] Eric Brotman: It was also that you only needed 70% of your pre-retirement income to live. That’s planning for a 30% pay cut. In my opinion, is planning to fail. Why would anyone deliberately set out to plan for 70%? If nothing else, if you plan for 70% and you don’t hit your goal, you might be at 45 or 50%. If you shoot for a hundred and you wind up at 84, you’re going to eat.

[00:15:40] Eric Brotman: So I think it’s important to make sure to set your sights on perpetuating your income indefinitely. And then if you don’t hit it, you’re still in such good shape that you’ll manage. You’ll be okay. Rather than to say, this is where I can eke by. And I can’t wait to quit this rotten job and I’m going to eke by, at this level and then if you don’t exactly hit it, you’re really in trouble. And that’s not a good outcome.

[00:16:05] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah, I think, I mean, we’ve talked about this previously on shows, but I think it’s still important to mention, you know, automation with, you know, doing this planning and practicing financially. You know, automatically having your 401k contributions taken out and taking that stress where out of sight, out of mind kind of pops in my head.

[00:16:22] Cody Niedermeier: But at the same thing, like you said, let’s say gross 10,000 a month, you’re getting from your paycheck and you wa you want to start practicing for retirement with the idea of, I want to live off 6,000, you know, having an automation of, you know, moving 4,000, once you get that paycheck to a savings account that you don’t use daily or something like that, I think proves instrumental to, you know, clients, myself personally. I know other advisors in this office use it to their advantage as well, but, you know, automating things I think can be really beneficial to helping you achieve these financial practices as well.

[00:16:58] Eric Brotman: For better or for worse, if it’s in your primary checking account and you have an ATM card you’re, you’re locked and loaded.

[00:17:05] Eric Brotman: This means that you’re in a position where you could spend that any which way you want it to. And, and frankly, once it gets into that account, that’s really what that account is for. Your primary checking account is an in and out vessel. It’s a way to have money come in and money. Go out, you pay bills. It’s a convenience.

[00:17:21] Eric Brotman: It doesn’t make you any money. There’s no interest on that. I remember when there was, but you don’t, sir. At any rate there was exactly, so, so yes, it makes sense to automate and not just to automate your saved. But to automate your investments too. And there’s a profound difference. Automating your savings means that you’re parting with this money and then it never gets into your free to spend any way I want to account.

[00:17:49] Eric Brotman: It means that it’s to your point, sort of out of sight, out of mind. But what people tend to do is they grow that pot of money and then they try to figure out when is a good time to invest it.

[00:18:00] Cody Niedermeier: Jump in.

[00:18:01] Eric Brotman: And realistically, while it’s important to have an emergency fund, and I’m not suggesting investing down to the last dollar, that would be foolish. Once you’ve got an emergency fund that is the moat around your castle and it’s okay, investing should really be automated also kind of like in the 401k where you invest every paycheck. And the reason for that is that you avoid the psychological torture of timing. Is this a good month to do this? Is it a bad month to do this? Should I change this? The more important determinant of success is your behavior and your your, your ability to stick with a path and stick with a plan even when seas are choppy. If you, if you, if you start doing it and then you stop and then you start, and then you say, oh, is it a good time? Should I buy, should I sell? You’re you’re torturing yourself in a way that’s not helpful. You’re much better off having a plan, sticking to it, adjusting trajectory when you get blown off course, which will happen, but making sure that you’re, that you’ve got a, a, a solid, automated way to do these things.

[00:18:58] Eric Brotman: It’s so much better for you. It’s better for you emotionally, financially, too, but it’s better for you emotionally, not to have to think about it and then second guess yourself.

[00:19:08] Cody Niedermeier: And I mean, there are people in the industry of trying to time the market that aren’t successful and just, I mean, they carry that stress when they do this as a living and, you know, almost everybody we deal with aren’t in the industry and then trying to build on top of that. And, oh, I’m going to time this and jump in here. It’s an extremely cool thing to do that. I think taking it off the emotional side is huge for peace of mind. So I think that’s a great point that you just made.

[00:19:35] Eric Brotman: It’s not difficult. It’s impossible.

[00:19:37] Cody Niedermeier: I wasn’t going to say it but I was hoping you would.

[00:19:39] Eric Brotman: It was possible. If it was possible to time and always be right that person or those people would have been hired a long time ago by the biggest money managers on the planet. And they would always win. It doesn’t exist. It is a Mirage and some people with long winning streaks who say, oh, yes, I, I beat my index eight straighten years, which is terrific until the ninth year you hit the iceberg.

[00:20:02] Eric Brotman: You know, timing and tactical type money movement works until it doesn’t. And when it doesn’t usually it doesn’t in a very grand fashion. So we, we try to avoid most of that. Not necessarily entirely, but mostly.

[00:20:15] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah. Try to avoid the icebergs that little Titanic reference, but I think building off of the financially, there’s more than that to practicing for retirement, like we’ve said before, so.

[00:20:26] Cody Niedermeier: What is there more than money that we need to be planning for? Do I have to go home today and pretend I have grandkids and pensively or no? Do I have to go book a trip to Aruba just you know, feel like I’m retired?

[00:20:39] Eric Brotman: Well, if. If your version of retirement is living in Aruba, you best save more than you think.

[00:20:45] Eric Brotman: And no, I don’t think you should go home and play with someone else’s kids necessarily either the, the, the, the way to look at this is to figure out the things that give you passion, the things you want to do. So, for example, I’ve heard a lot of people say, well, when I’m retired, I’m going to do consulting. Okay, well, let’s find out if there’s an appetite for whatever you do.

[00:21:07] Eric Brotman: Is there a consulting appetite? Start consulting while you’re still working. Have one or two or three clients and do a side hustle. Just because you’re 58 and you’re a late boomer or an early Xer doesn’t mean you can’t have a side hustle. Millennials and Z’s don’t have this to themselves. We’re allowed, too.

[00:21:24] Eric Brotman: And so practice it. Start a consulting practice, have one or two clients. See if there’s appetite. See if you like it. I mean, it’s like trying it before you buy it. Before you realize now I’m stuck and this is what I have to do. If you don’t want to do consulting, but you’re thinking, you know, I don’t think I’m going to need income at all, but I’d really like to volunteer.

[00:21:42] Eric Brotman: And I would like to volunteer at the food bank. I, that that’s what I’m passionate about is what I want to do. And if that’s what you say, start that start now. Spend your Saturdays that way while you’re still punching the clock. There’s a couple of reasons first, make sure that you do in fact, have a passion around this and that it is rewarding and that you, and that you love it, but also build your network in those non-profit communities.

[00:22:05] Eric Brotman: Just because you’re not working for a living doesn’t mean you don’t have enough. And your network, even if it’s not for profit your network and still plug you into opportunities and things that will be rewarding. So I think you need to meet the people. You need to understand the organizations, you need to kick the tires.

[00:22:21] Eric Brotman: You need to try this before you suddenly wake up and that’s what your life has become, because if you’re wrong, you want to be able to have a Mulligan.

[00:22:31] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah, that’s true. But I mean, I think that feeds into, you know, You’re like, you’re saying like, it’s, it’s never too early to start, you know, trying to build this network and get ideas of what you are passionate about.

[00:22:46] Cody Niedermeier: I think I might’ve stole your thunder by saying it’s not too late to start. I should have started yesterday, but you know, when should people start really thinking about this?

[00:22:54] Cody Niedermeier: I think

[00:22:55] Eric Brotman: as soon as you’ve built a true financial independence plan and you get to that sort of five-year mark, I practicing something that’s 30 years out is silly because life’s going to be completely different.

[00:23:05] Eric Brotman: So I, I don’t know that there’s a, there’s a too late to start, unless you’ve already put in your notice. If you already said this is my last two weeks, it’s a little too late to start practicing. On the other hand, I do think it can be too early. I think there’s, there’s so many variables and life is going to throw so many things that ourselves I’m not suggesting to our 30 or 40 or 50 year old clients that they start practicing.

[00:23:25] Eric Brotman: I think there’s a point in time where the most important things for younger people, and that’s 30, 40, 50, that is to make sure you’re in the right habits. To make sure you’ve built a true financial independence plan. To make sure that you’ve automated things and that you’re paying yourself first and that you’re sticking to your plan.

[00:23:43] Eric Brotman: If you do those things, then when you get to sort of that five-year horizon, you can start taking those steps and you can sort of tiptoe into it and have plenty of time to figure out if you’re, if you’re right. Or if you’re wrong about the things you want to do. Because if you say, I, you know, what I want to do is spend, spend the rest of my life laying on the beach, and then you go on vacation and on the fourth day, you’re bored silly looking for something to do.

[00:24:09] Eric Brotman: You’re not going to spend 30 years that way. People people underestimate their need for stimulation. They underestimate the need to feel important and to feel respected and to feel connected and to feel it, you know, we spend our entire lives building this, this incredible acumen, this incredible experience.

[00:24:30] Eric Brotman: Why would we do that if the net goal is to build it all, build it, all, build it all and then quit and not use it in some way to, to do good? So, no, I don’t think it’s ever, I don’t think it’s ever too late as long as you haven’t already pulled the, you know, it’s too late if you’ve already said I quit. But other than that, I, I do think it can be too early though.

[00:24:50] Eric Brotman: I think it’s better to, to allow yourself to to plan for independence without necessarily trying to figure out how to live on less. I don’t know that many people in their twenties and thirties who want to live on less than they make, because they’re not in their peak earning years yet. It’s true. It’ll come. Peak earning years are somewhere between 45 and 55 for most folks.

[00:25:11] Eric Brotman: And being that I’m in that range, I don’t hate it.

[00:25:14] Cody Niedermeier: You don’t?

[00:25:15] Eric Brotman: I don’t it’s it’s not terrible. I’m I’m, you know, it only took me 30 years to be a success.

[00:25:21] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah, I would say you’re a success, I wouldn’t say on this webinar, but you got me twisted my arm. But you’ve talked about something before, before we even get into this slide that you’ve written about in your book, you’ve written about in the past, you’ve actually recently talked about this on your office hours, your Don’t Retire… Graduate! podcast.. And if you haven’t listened to it and you’re listening to this webinar, it’s phenomenal. It’s a seven minute listen. But I think we’re going to dissect that a little bit here. It’s the idea of a retirement checklist. So it’s kind of, I believe and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s before retirement, we should be doing this. You know, retirement day we should be doing this and in retirement what are the next steps as well in order to get us to that idea of graduation? So as we dive into that, this is just the first section of it. Kind of, I think it’s going to encompass a lot of what we’ve already talked about today, but what are the things, you know, the listeners, the people are going to watch this on recording, anybody that gets their hands on this webinar should be doing before.

[00:26:20] Eric Brotman: Other than what we’ve already talked about this morning I would say it’s, it’s a very important time to figure out, and this is before you retire, before you give notice, two really, really fundamentally primary things. One: where you think you might want to live in retirement.

[00:26:36] Cody Niedermeier: Okay.

[00:26:36] Eric Brotman: And that’s not just geography. It might be that you don’t want a single family home with three flights of stairs in it. And if your 60 year old self can’t picture your 80 year old self navigating that at some point, we have to come to grips with the fact that none of us are getting younger. So that’s one.

[00:26:54] Eric Brotman: Where are you going to live? Do you want to live near the mountains? Do you want to live near the beach? Do you want to live near your children and grandchildren? Do you want to live near your favorite hobbies or sports teams, or theaters? Do you want to live in a condominium or do you want to live in a continuing care community or assisted living or active over 55 communities?

[00:27:12] Eric Brotman: What does your vision include in terms of where you’re going to live? You don’t want to wake up one day retired and then have to figure that out. The other thing that I think is important to do before you retire is to is to settle any remaining lingering debt issues. It is much better to to borrow money, it’s much easier to borrow money when you have a job it’s, it’s almost impossible afterwards. And so if you need to refinance a note or you need to make a change to some of your, some of the debt structure, do it while you still have your full-time paycheck because refinancing a mortgage or dealing with some of those things right now, it takes two to three months. It is like it is like an inquisition to try and get a mortgage on these. And I don’t know that that’s going to get any easier, but I will say if you don’t have a W2 or a 10 99 or predictably good revenues, income, it will be incredibly difficult. I also think that for retirees, there were three secrets at the end of the day, and I don’t know that they’re secret.

[00:28:13] Eric Brotman: And if I share them with you, they won’t be secrets anymore. Anyway, but the happiest retirees have three things in common. The first one is they’re financially independent and usually debt-free. That is just a fundamentally, when you don’t know anybody, anything you sleep better at night. And there’s some exceptions to that, but for the most part debt-free is a good thing.

[00:28:31] Eric Brotman: The second thing is they’re healthy. And so before you retire, you’re not going to wake up on your 67th birthday, decide, you know what? I’m retired now and it’s time to hit the gym. That’s just not what happens. You need to stay healthy along the way. And so having some healthy habits, whether it’s nutrition, whether it’s exercise, whether it’s sleep, whether it’s leisure, whether it’s meditation or acupuncture or massage or whatever, self care you need, you know, start that sooner.

[00:29:00] Eric Brotman: Don’t allow yourself to eat fast food in the car every day until you’re 65 and then wake up and think you’re going to be, you know, you’re going to be doing fitness videos. It’s just not what happens. And then the third thing that I would say is that there’s purpose. And we’ve talked about that a lot already today, but if you’re debt-free and you have your health, which we can’t always control, but we can do the best we can to prevent certain things.

[00:29:25] Eric Brotman: If you’re debt-free and you have your health and you have a reason to get out of bed every morning, you’ve already won. Basically. Yeah. So so that’s something to do before you retire. And then lastly, I would say is to communicate. Make sure if you’re married, we’re in a committed relationship, you and your significant other spent some time thinking about this because timing retirement matters.

[00:29:46] Eric Brotman: If one of you retires and one of you doesn’t, it’s going to change the dynamics in your household. It’s not a good thing or a bad thing. It’s just a change. If there’s age disparity between you and your spouse, you might be in different stages of your career. And one of you is ready to retire. And one of you is not, which means one of you is ready to downsize to a condo.

[00:30:02] Eric Brotman: And one of you still likes to have the big house. One of you, if you’re in a second marriage, one of you has kids in California and one of you has kids in Vermont, where are you going to live? How do you do that? How, how does everybody feel about that stuff? Or even if you just have three children and they’re all over the place, it’s good to communicate with your spouse.

[00:30:21] Eric Brotman: It’s also really good to communicate with your grown children. Yeah, because, because there, there may be a tendency for people to say, you know, my, my daughter and my son-in-law are in, they’re they’re in Wisconsin. So I’m moving to Wisconsin. But what you don’t know is that they’re planning a job change and they’re moving to Missouri.

[00:30:41] Eric Brotman: It’s helpful not to show up in Wisconsin and then not have any friends or family there. Like there might be a better way to do this. There’s a lot of considerations, but it all comes down to communication, transparency and, and really dialogue between spouses and family members. That’s what you have to do before you retire, in my opinion.

[00:30:58] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah. And I actually, I got a question that we usually say for the end. It popped up and I think it’s relevant in this idea of before retirement. It’s not a fun subject, but the idea of long-term care. And, you know, planning when, for the time when you do need help in retirement and you know, when’s the best time to apply? You know, should younger people apply early to get better rates or raises the question of, you know, what is long-term care going to look like in the future? So I think they were hoping that you could touch on that subject as well.

[00:31:29] Eric Brotman: Well, it’s, it’s good to get a question like that and it’s it’s not an easy answer.

[00:31:33] Eric Brotman: None, none of us know what, what long-term care is going to look like. I do know that aging is. Glamorous. It’s not easy. And people who do it say it’s not for the faint of heart. That’s why I’m choosing not to do it. In terms of decision, I’ve made the decision not to age. I don’t know what that means, but long-term care is really a, it’s a series of decisions and long-term care is not the same as long-term care ensure.

[00:31:58] Eric Brotman: So let’s dispel the myth that the only way to solve long-term care planning is to buy insurance. That is not true. There are plenty of people for whom a it’s not affordable to do it that way, or B they just simply don’t need to do it that way. And so there’s lots of different options. I would say if you are, if you are paycheck to paycheck, you are not buying long-term care insurance. It’s just simply not going to be affordable. And if you’re independently wealthy where you, you almost don’t care you might want to do it because of tax reasons. It might become an arbitrage opportunity for you and you’ll feel good about it, but you don’t necessarily need it.

[00:32:32] Eric Brotman: You could afford your own care. You could afford your own care. You just might want to use tax-free dollars to do it. So there’s reasons to do it that way. But there’s more to long-term care planning than just insurance. Some of it is figuring out your housing arrangement. Some of it’s making sure that if you’re in a big single family home and you can’t age in place, That you don’t encumber it with like a reverse mortgage or something where you eat into your equity.

[00:32:57] Eric Brotman: And now you’re, you’re, you’re really stuck because you can’t move in a favorable way. That’s a terrible solution, a bad outcome. On the other hand, if you’re in a place where you can age in place and you want to get care at home, which I don’t know too many people who, who would say, you know, I’d really prefer to be in a nursing home.

[00:33:13] Eric Brotman: People say, I want to be home. What do I have to do? That means spend a little time and energy thinking about, can you really age in place? Can you live there? Long-term are you in a position where you can retrofit the house? You know, if, if the only thing upstairs is the laundry room, how do you figure it out so there’s no laundry on that floor and you can put it at the same place. If the master bedroom is not on the first floor, it’s probably not the best outcome for you. Unless you’re putting in an elevator and I don’t know very many people who do that. And so, so, and there’s chairlifts and other things, but not everybody wants to live that way either.

[00:33:44] Eric Brotman: So I, I, I think it’s, it’s helpful to do now in terms of the insurance options there are options that are relatively inexpensive, where you buy a long-term care type policy. That is like an auto insurance policy. It’s one where you, you you have it, you pay for it. The rates go up frequently. And if you never use it, you collect nothing from it.

[00:34:06] Eric Brotman: But you don’t buy auto insurance hoping to have an accident so you can try it out, you know you buy it in case there’s a disaster. And so that’s what those kinds of things are for. And they’re the, they’re the most affordable, but I would never suggest somebody do that young. Because, because with the escalating cost of healthcare and the escalating cost of premiums, you’re not really locking anything in.

[00:34:25] Eric Brotman: You’re going to want to paying more for it later. You’re just paying for it. When you’re 33, it makes no sense. Okay. I think the time to start looking at long-term care seriously is probably 45 to 55. And I would say 55 is the true sweet spot. At 55 years old if you haven’t begun to plan for this. And you’re, you’re wanting to, to ensure some of the risk. At 55, you really ought to jump on it at 65.

[00:34:51] Eric Brotman: It’s usually if not too late, it’s going to be much more difficult. That’s the, that’s the range. There are ways to combine long-term care with other financial vehicles. Some of them are great. Some of them allow you to have life insurance so that you own it. And if you need it, you spend your own death benefit on your care.

[00:35:10] Eric Brotman: But if you don’t need it, your heirs get the money or your spouse or whoever. Some people prefer that because then they don’t feel like they’re throwing money away because then instead of auto insurance, then what you’re doing is you’re buying life insurance, but you’re hedging your bets that if you need your own death benefit, it’s there for you for care.

[00:35:26] Eric Brotman: Now that’s a heck of a lot more expensive, so it’s not for everybody, but for, for people with the means to do that, it can be a great solution.

[00:35:34] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah. And like you can say, get it can get really intricate and I think, you know, when you’re looking at those things that just it proves the benefit of speaking with a financial advisor, you know, having a team together that can help you make those decisions, you know, what you can afford, what makes sense for you just knowing them as a client or as a person in that relationship is huge.

[00:35:53] Cody Niedermeier: But I think that more than answers that question. And like I said, we usually save those for the end. That one just came up that I thought would slide perfectly into the slide that we were on. So thank you for answering that. Sure. And as we move on, I finally, you know, I made it to the day. I made it to the day I’m retired. My two weeks are over. I gave my two weeks notice. I said bye to everybody. What do I need to do on day one?

[00:36:20] Eric Brotman: You need to look for work. No, I’m only kidding, but there are things you need to do. If not on the day you retire then shortly thereafter especially, especially related to things like employee benefits or pensions.

[00:36:33] Eric Brotman: If you have a, if you have access to a pension, whether it’s public or private, you have to make an election to start your pension income. It is absolutely an irrevocable decision. Once you make it, you can never change your mind and the things you have to focus on there are, am I married? Do I want to provide for my spouse in the pension?

[00:36:53] Eric Brotman: Will I take a reduced pension? Make sure that my spouse is okay if he or she outlives me or do I have enough life insurance that I don’t need to do that? Because if my pension stops, there’s a death benefit for my spouse. Okay. You know, do you, are you in a situation where you want to make sure that the pension has has not only the survivorship options on it, but are there pop-up options?

[00:37:14] Eric Brotman: There are usually about six different ways to, to elect a pension. And it’s important to look at all of them. If you don’t have a pension in many of us, don’t, you’re still going to want to be thinking about how to time things like. If you retire and you’re 67, you’re at full retirement age for social security, but it may not be best for you to start social security at 67.

[00:37:35] Eric Brotman: It may make sense to wait till 70 for financial reasons. So if you’re going to wait because they give you an 8% raise year over year, every year, you wait from 67 to 70, it winds up being almost 25% more. If that’s true, if that’s true and you live past 83 or 84 years old, you’ve won that game too. So you’re betting on yourself, not against yourself if you wait. However, the drawback of that is that if you’re 67 and you’re not collecting social security and you don’t have a pension, you’re going to have to pull much harder on your assets to replace your income until social security starts. So do you have a plan for that? So those are the kinds of things you’re going to elect when you retire. Some things you’re also going to elect, like if you have group life insurance benefits, sometimes they’re portable.

[00:38:20] Eric Brotman: You can take them with you. If you have health insurance decisions to make when you retire, if you retire and you are 65 or older, you’ll be Medicare eligible, which means you want to make sure you’ve, you’ve elected at that point medicare. And we can talk about Medicare a little more if you’d like, but if you retire before you’re 63 and a half then Medicare can’t by itself, be the solution, because what happens is at 63 and a half, if you leave your employer, you can take Cobra, which is the continuation of benefits. You can take it up to 18 months. So from 63 and a half to 65, you can maintain your coverage through the, through your prior employer.

[00:38:57] Eric Brotman: Now it’ll be expensive, but it’s yours. They’re not going to take it away from you. Once you’re 65, that’s when Medicare part B becomes available to you and it’s on your nickel, but it’s. And just a quick word about Medicare is w w by your 65th birthday, you’ve got to be enrolled in Medicare part a even if you still have other health insurance.

[00:39:16] Eric Brotman: Absolutely have to apply for Medicare part a it there’s no cost, but if you don’t apply in time for your 65th birthday, you will have potentially higher costs down the road and it will create problems for you. So no matter, no matter how financially stable you are, no matter whether you’re still working or not.

[00:39:36] Eric Brotman: Once you’re 65, you must have Medicare A. Medicare B and D and supplement and all that stuff can wait until you’re no longer insured through your employer, but when you retire, you’re gonna have to make those elections and you’re going to have to make them fast. You’re also then going to have to think about what do I do with my retirement funds?

[00:39:53] Eric Brotman: Do I keep them in the 401k with my prior employer? Do I do I have to wait until there’s a profit sharing contribution made on my behalf you know, next spring? Do I have access to that plan to roll it to an IRA and manage it myself, or to have my financial advisor manage it? There pros and cons to all of that, but it’s helpful to know what the plan is going to be so that when you retire, you’re ready.

[00:40:15] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah. So, I mean, there’s a lot of steps, but I think just building on the Medicare, how do you apply? Is there a gap of, you know, a certain number of days before or a grace period after that you have to do it within?

[00:40:28] Eric Brotman: Yeah, I believe it’s 90 days before. So, you know, you’re 64 and three quarters, which no one says. People are like six and three quarters. They’re never 64 and three quarters, but nonetheless, if you’re 64 and three quarters, then you can go online and you can apply for Medicare a straight through the social security website.

[00:40:47] Cody Niedermeier: Awesome.

[00:40:47] Eric Brotman: That’s the best way to go at that point. Perfect. Not difficult, not difficult, but don’t forget.

[00:40:54] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah, set a little reminder to put your cal, put it on your calendar to make sure you’re ahead of that rather than behind.

[00:40:59] Cody Niedermeier: But I think actually already touched on, you know, what do I need to do after retire when speaking about, you know, the social security. When’s the right time. I think building off of that, what would be, or what would you say to a client saying I’m 62. That’s my money. I want it now. And I think maybe you’ve already touched on it a little bit, but some of the conversations that you can have with somebody of why it would make sense, you know, to wait to either full retirement age or possibly even 70, if they have the resources to do so.

[00:41:28] Eric Brotman: Well, it may or may not make sense. Everybody’s different. If you’re 62 and you’re not working particularly if you’re not in great health, it may make sense to claim social security early because it is, it is arguably better to get something out of the system then to potentially get nothing out of the system. The people who want to wait, if you’re working at all, you don’t want to take social security before full retirement age because you take permanent reductions on it makes no sense. Okay. So for most folks, it’s now going to be 67. But the difference between 67 and 70 can be profound, but you’re betting on your longevity.

[00:42:05] Eric Brotman: And so it really comes down to among other things, the health of you and, or your spouse. And so I do think there are situations where it makes sense to take it at 62, if you’re if you are not working and you’re realistically never going to go back to work in any material way. And you are you know, and, and you have morbidities, you have something that could that could challenge your, your, your life expectancy. Yeah, it makes sense to take it.

[00:42:33] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah, I think that’s a very good, you know, brief overview. And there’s obviously, there’s way more that we can dive into with discussions with future clients and you know, anybody that has questions about it. But I think that’s a really good place to kind of build on. But we finally, you know, we reached the last main slide of this presentation with kind of everything has a, been a build-up to this idea.

[00:42:56] Cody Niedermeier: Graduation, you know, retirement is not a finish line, like so many people make it out to be, and we’ve touched on throughout this presentation. So how did you come up with the idea of, you know, graduating into retirement and, you know, graduation into the next phase of your life rather than, you know, I did it. I’m here.

[00:43:17] Eric Brotman: I think I stumbled upon it. Not necessarily on purpose, but I stumbled on it because I realized that retirement is something that people spend their entire lives looking forward to. And typically you only do it one. And it’s the end. You know, I heard Bobby Bowden once he was a football coach at Florida state.

[00:43:40] Eric Brotman: And he once said that he wasn’t ready to retire. He’s in his eighties. He said, I’m not ready to retire because that means that my next milestone is functionally the end of my road. You know, if the next thing you have to celebrate is your own demise. I don’t know anybody. Who’s ready to sign up for that.

[00:43:55] Eric Brotman: So that you’re next on deck. It’s just morbid and the idea of retirement, just the word. The word has tire in it. The word has its retreat. It’s surrender. It’s its acquiescence. It’s quitting. It is in the UK. When you retire, you go to bed. If you go to sleep for the night that’s to retire in, in London, I just think that the word is loaded and it’s loaded against us.

[00:44:20] Eric Brotman: And it was a concept created by government wonks in the 1800s who decided they had to find a way to get rid of useless old people. Who, by the way, you started to be useless then at 40. By 60 it was all done. So I think the, the definition has to be thrown out. The concept has to be thrown out financial independence is a spectacular goal for everyone at any age, if you’re financially independent at 29, good for you.

[00:44:47] Eric Brotman: Most people don’t get there at all, but if you do get there, it’s not real young most of the time, but financial independence is great. I think graduation is, is the kind of thing where you celebrate and achieve but you also advanced to the next thing. Well, retirement reaching financial independence is an achievement and it’s something worth celebrating, but it’s not the end of your life.

[00:45:11] Eric Brotman: In fact, for people 65, you might still have a 30 year life to go or more. And half of your adult. It’s why would anyone sign up to, to go from 50 or 60 hours a week to Oprah and shuffleboard? I’ll pass that’s dreadful. So that’s why I think it’s a graduation. I think it’s something you celebrate. I think it’s something you Revere.

[00:45:32] Eric Brotman: I think you become the wisest member of the tribe. You know, it used to be that we revered our elders and we’d go to them with the real complicated problems. Now we put them out to pasture, like they’re useless. Why? They still know more than we do.

[00:45:45] Eric Brotman: They have experience we can’t possibly have, they have wisdom we can’t possibly fake. Why not leverage the people who’ve been at this for 60, 70, 80 years or more? Why not leverage that incredible experience? It doesn’t end. And if you’re financially independent, you don’t have to do anything for money.

[00:46:03] Eric Brotman: Give back to the things that matter. That’s great, but I don’t, I don’t think retirement is, is good for you. I think none of us should do it unless we define retirement as the absence of needing to work, not the absence of actual work itself. If, if you love what you do, what else would you rather do? I don’t know about you, you’re you’re not a married guy. I’m a married guy. If, if I was, if I was to retire tomorrow in the traditional sense and putter around the house. I I’d wind up in deep trouble. My wife doesn’t want me to do that. Go, go, go to work. Be busy, go be productive, because I’d be bored in three days, a long weekend bores me to tears, Cody, half the time, unless I’m doing something to look forward to. Like, I love this. If I, if I wasn’t doing this, I don’t know what I’d be doing, but it sure as heck wouldn’t be daytime TV.

[00:46:53] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah. I think that’s a great point. Not a perspective that know. We’re trying to spread the word about, but a lot of people don’t have, I think it’s still seen as a finish line and I hope that this really does resonate with a lot of listeners and viewers today, but we’ve got about 10 minutes.

[00:47:10] Cody Niedermeier: I’m pulling up your slide, but there was one other question that really stuck out to me as we were going through this presentation that I want to present to you and let you do your things. So from one of the listeners, we got our biggest concern is healthcare costs. And it’s the only thing that’s stopping them at this point from retirement.

[00:47:30] Cody Niedermeier: So I was hoping you could you know, dissect that a little bit and you know, give them some valuable information as well.

[00:47:34] Eric Brotman: The short answer is it should be one of your primary concerns. It’s something to be very, very wary of healthcare costs because we spend I think I read a statistic once and I can’t quote the source. So, but, but I, I believe what I saw was that we spend typically 50% of our medical costs in our lifetimes are spent in the last year. When you think about that, that’s unbelievable. Yes, because if you’re, if you’re lingering, if you’re in hospice, if you’re in, if you’re in assisted living or nursing home, or if you just are going through procedures to try and extend your life, that’s wickedly expensive.

[00:48:11] Eric Brotman: So there are a lot of people who, who either can’t or won’t retire because of health care. And you know, I don’t want to wax political ever because everyone’s got different opinions on the subject, but the fact that most of us have to rely on our employers to provide health insurance means that most people can’t retire in the absence of a decent health insurance plan.

[00:48:32] Eric Brotman: And there’s, it’s, it’s a hot potato, it’s a loaded subject, but I would say that 63 and a half is is really that moment until we’re, unless there’s some change to where healthcare is available for individuals in a favorable way. And right now I’m not sure that’s the case. So you know, setting aside enough dollars to pay the exchange premiums and everything is fine.

[00:48:56] Eric Brotman: But a lot of times the coverage is not going to be as, it’s not going to be as comprehensive. And what I would say to somebody planning for retirement, who’s nervous about healthcare costs is to bank as much into their health savings accounts as possible while they’re working. Because the health savings account, assuming you have a high deductible plan while you’re working, you fund an HSA, it’s tax deductible.

[00:49:17] Eric Brotman: You can grow it and invest it. And it’s tax deductible and tax deferred forever. And then you can make withdrawals from that for healthcare costs and that includes long-term care or health premiums. And ultimately, I think that’s one way to prepare for what could be a very expensive couple of years if you retire before you’re 63 and a half.

[00:49:35] Cody Niedermeier: Okay. Where, where can individuals find out if they are eligible for an HSA? Who would they go to? Would they go to their HR representative to get their benefit information? What, what type of resources would they have to, you know, learn about an HSA and kind of see if it’s right for them?

[00:49:53] Eric Brotman: I think you start with, with your benefit handbook, figure out if you’re in a high deductible health plan. Usually, you know, if you’re in a high deductible health plan, because every time you go to the doctor, it costs you money out of pocket. But what I would tell people is you don’t use your HSA for deductibles and copays. Bank that money for, for later because our expenses later in life can be massive and you’re allowed to fund the HSA until you’re 65 and then you can’t fund it anymore anyway. So getting as much money in there. And I’d say that to somebody 25, not, not just somebody 55. The more money you can get into an HSA, the better. I think it’s the, the perfect tax shelter. And it provides tax-free growth and tax-free dollars for something we all know to be a time bomb financially and that’s healthcare.

[00:50:40] Eric Brotman: So I can think of nothing more important. So I would start with your benefit handbook. If you’re not sure, contact HR and fall else fails, call your insurance company, but prepare to stay on hold and not to have the best experience.

[00:50:54] Cody Niedermeier: Speak to a robot for a little bit first.

[00:50:55] Eric Brotman: Speak to speak to the machine. Yeah.

[00:50:59] Cody Niedermeier: I’m sure we’re well, I’ll be diving in deeper to what HSA is, are in the future and in future webinars because of how important they can be. But for those, for those of those listeners, sorry, excuse me, that don’t know what an HSA is. It’s not just a bank account either. It’s not, you put your money in there and it sits there.

[00:51:15] Cody Niedermeier: It’s usually there’s a minimum and correct me if I’m wrong, Eric, of about a thousand or $2,000 that you have to remain in cash. Everything above that you can actually invest. And there’s certain funds that are available to you. So it’s just like a investment account from that standpoint that, you know, the interests can build and compound interest and build on itself.

[00:51:34] Cody Niedermeier: So the earlier you start really the more that this account can grow and provide you benefits down the line.

[00:51:39] Eric Brotman: Yeah, there, there are, there are various tax strategies that people routinely miss or misuse. And in fact I see on the screen, you’re talking about the e-books. There’s an ebook that’s available at brotmanmedia.com or you can go directly to it at lowtaxbook.com about four strategies where you can put money as an American, you can put money where it will never be taxed again, used properly and it’s making a huge difference and the strategies in the book, first of all, it’s an easy read. It’s and it’s free. You can download it at any point, but there are four strategies, four places where people can put money where it’s never taxed again. I use all four of them personally, and I share my personal stories on how they’ve benefited me and my family and my life financially in this e-book. It’s, it’s an easy read and worth reading. And we, you know, we’ve gotten a lot of ahas. I’ve stumped some CPAs, quite frankly, asking for those four things. And I’m not going to tell anyone on this podcast right now, what the four things are. You have to go get the ebook, but they’re there. And the HSA is one of them and it’s used incorrectly all the time and used properly it’s incredibly powerful.

[00:52:46] Cody Niedermeier: Yeah, I think, I think that’s kind of a, a good way to end today’s webinar. But as you guys can see on the screen, we have this big free consultation, a barcode that if you actually take a picture of on your phone, you can schedule a free consultation with one of our lead advisors at BFG financial advisors.

[00:53:03] Cody Niedermeier: And there’s no obligation. It’s literally just a conversation where we can help answer some questions you might have and see if we can help you and provide value to you moving forward. But if we didn’t get to your questions today, I apologize. We only got an hour, but feel free to send those in, tune into the next webinar.

[00:53:20] Cody Niedermeier: You can ask those questions there. I’m going to keep selecting a few at a time, but Really appreciate you guys watching today’s webinar. Eric, I really appreciate you coming back on the show. I think I think I get a little break from you with with our next webinar. So I’m looking forward to that, but it has been a joy to have you these past few weeks.

[00:53:37] Cody Niedermeier: And Eric’s new book, Don’t Retire… Graduate!, as you can see on the screen is actually available on Amazon and it touches on basically everything we talked about today and much, much more. I’ve had to read through it a couple of times just because I’ve enjoyed it so much. So please check that out.

[00:53:52] Cody Niedermeier: And like Eric recommended go to Brotmanmedia.com. We have multiple free resources for you guys. Like. And then if you’ve got those questions set up that free consultation, but our next webinar is going to be on May 12th. And I’m really looking forward to this one because it’s going to be what, one of the partners at our firm, Yanni Niebuhr, who I work very closely with.

[00:54:12] Cody Niedermeier: So it should be entertaining for everyone watching and we’re going to be discussing paying yourself first and strategies to grow your savings, to help you get towards retirement. But once again, Eric, thank you so much. We always have a good time and I’m sure we’ll have a laugh about it afterwards, but thank you,

[00:54:29] Eric Brotman: Cody, you nailed it. You’re a natural host and I thank you for doing this.

[00:54:33] Cody Niedermeier: No problem. I’m really enjoying it, but thank you everybody for tuning in and we’ll hopefully see you on May 12th at our next webinar.