Male, Pale, and Stale: The Growing Need for Diverse Voices in Finance with Michelle Waymire

[00:00:00] Eric Brotman: Welcome to Don’t Retire, graduate, the podcast that asks you what you want to be when you grow up so you can graduate into retirement with purpose and passion. I’m your host in valedictorian, Eric Brotman, and today’s guest is Michelle Wehmeyer. She’s a fiduciary financial advisor and financial coach, as well as the founder of Young and Scrappy, A specialty practice geared towards serving young professionals, artists and entrepreneurs, and LGBTQ q plus folks.

Uh, Michelle Holder, masters in business administration from the University of Tennessee, despite being a resident of Georgia, she’s a C F a Chartered financial analyst, a charter holder, and also a certified financial planner. P she’s been quoted and featured in US News, glamor Bustle, her local N p R, and now don’t retire, graduate.

Michelle, welcome, welcome to the show. I’m so excited you’re here. 

[00:00:54] Michelle Waymire: Oh my gosh, I’m so excited to be 

[00:00:56] Eric Brotman: here. I, I have read a lot about you. [00:01:00] Um, I, I now realize we have an enormous amount in common, which I’m super excited about, and I’m also gonna challenge you on some of the stuff today. So if you’re. If you’re ready, first tell us a little bit about you, uh, how you got started in this business and why you’re passionate about it, and then it’s rapid fire round.

I can just feel it. All 

[00:01:18] Michelle Waymire: right. I’m so pumped. Let’s go. Yeah. Um, yeah, so thank you for the introduction. My name is Michelle Wehmeyer. I’m based in Atlanta, Georgia, and I’m a fiduciary financial advisor and coach. Um, I actually got into this work through the investment side first. So after I got my master’s in business, I actually ended up working for a mutual fund company, which was.

Interesting work. It was not emotionally fulfilling work. So once I learned that people could take their investment knowledge and actually use it to help individuals and families and small businesses, I knew that I needed to make a pivot. So I worked for a couple of years for another advisor before starting my own practice and have not looked 

[00:01:59] Eric Brotman: back since.[00:02:00] 

And when did you start your. 

[00:02:03] Michelle Waymire: Gosh, I hung my shingle. Um, January 1st, 2020, right before Covid hit. Uh, excellent, 

[00:02:09] Eric Brotman: excellent timing. So you’re, so you’re entirely virtual. All your clients are in the Midwest. Are, do you have, so, so tell me, so you started in 2020 from go from zero, from, um, starting with client number one.

[00:02:24] Michelle Waymire: I, um, am very grateful that the transition with my old employer went well. Um, and I had a handful of clients actually follow me from that firm. Um, okay. But it certainly felt like ground zero uhhuh. It was a, a small but dedicated following, so 

[00:02:39] Eric Brotman: well, I, I went through that same experience in October of 2003.

So I’ve been at this a little longer, but I can tell you that, um, that we’re, we’re living, um, we’re living parallel lives. I’m just a little bit ahead of you in, in that journey. Um, so you know every place on your website, the word fiduciary shows up [00:03:00] a lot. It’s an important topic. Uh, and I’d like to talk a little bit about what that means to you and what that I hope should mean and signify to consumers.

[00:03:11] Michelle Waymire: Yeah, so the old F word, um, yeah, one of my favorites. Uh, so fiduciary I think means that I am both like legally and ethically bound to put the client’s best interest first, uh, in all scenarios and obviously a big buzzword in the industry now as we’re sort of all collectively wrapping our arms around what it means, what the constraints are, what the limitations are, who’s a fiduciary, who’s not, and how does that impact all of our work together.

But it is something that I, I feel very strongly about. You’re, you’re exactly right. 

[00:03:43] Eric Brotman: Well, and it’s something that’s been thrown around and misused and abused for a very long time. Uh, and, and consumers I think, don’t really understand the difference between someone who is working for them and represents their interests and someone who is working for x, y, Z company, whether it’s a [00:04:00] trust company or a bank, or a mutual fund company, or an investment firm, or an insurance company.

And unfortunately, you know, you have duties of loyalty to your employer, and if your employer is not your client, then you have split loyalties. Yeah. And that, that doesn’t mean that that, uh, advisors who are working for these organizations can’t be wonderful advisors. I’m not disparaging or painting with that brush.

There’s some wonderful people, but it does mean that you have to wonder when your best interests are, not the exclusive interests being served, what that could mean to you. Do you see a lot of that still in, in your, in your. 

[00:04:42] Michelle Waymire: I do. Um, it’s interesting sometimes folks come to me having worked with an advisor at an, at another firm.

Um, and it tends to be, you know, advisors who maybe aren’t independent but are affiliated with somebody else. And I think even if that person does excellent work, even if they have, um, kindness [00:05:00] and empathy and all of the right intentions in place, sometimes there can be a, a tension, a conflict of interest between the need to.

Um, offer clients the right, uh, services and products that are good for them, um, versus what the company wants their representatives to. Mm-hmm. Offer or sell. And I think it’s a hard, um, it’s, it’s a hard topic specifically because there are a lot of good ethical people working for those companies. And also we can’t deny that there can sometimes be a pretty severe conflict of interest.

[00:05:36] Eric Brotman: So in, in describing this to clients, you, you have your website’s amazing, and I know, I know we just shared it on screen. There’s a lot to it. I also know that it’s been edited very recently, um, and that the about page has changed, which is exciting because I know what you used to be about and now the website shows what you’re currently about.

So I’ve done some homework, Michelle, we’re gonna have a little fun with this, but the first [00:06:00] thing that you say, and one of the things that you said that I really love. Is that young clients and young is a relative thing, but young clients do not want their parents’, advisors. I totally agree with you. Um, and being the old guy in the room, which I often am, I know that our clients’ kids do not want me.

So having a multi-generational approach, a multi-generational firms and advisors with whom they can immediately relate a little better, I think matters. I also think it helps to have an advisor younger than you. Because that advisor’s likely to still be around when you need them the most. How, how d do, do you feel, uh, is, I assume this is still something you feel strongly about, but people don’t want their parents, advisors, they might use the same firm or the same team, but they don’t want, well, those young people don’t want me, and I, I feel that every day.

Well, I’m sorry. They want you, they don’t want me. But 

[00:06:56] Michelle Waymire: also I think that’s why it’s so great that there are so many types of [00:07:00] advisors, right? Because there’s no one advisor that’s gonna be perfect for everybody. Mm-hmm. It’s about finding somebody who’s going to be a good fit in alignment for what you need and what you’re interested in.

Um, and yeah, I think, I think that’s exactly right. The. Just different folks have different approaches and I think, um, I thrive working with a, a younger, a younger audience for sure. 

[00:07:22] Eric Brotman: Well, it certainly makes sense and I certainly started that way. And we have a, a number of advisors here in their twenties who like to work with young people, and it, it does create a, um, uh, a, a.

An easier conversation and certainly in a, a relatability, but you referred at one point on your website as not wanting, uh, another old white man in a suit pedaling products. So being an old white man, I will, I will tell you that I no longer wear a suit, just so I don’t fit that, that, that mold anymore. Um, this business is very white.

It’s very old, it’s very male. Um, and I’m two of those things at least. [00:08:00] But I do think it’s changing. I think there’s, there’s a, a, a need for a different audience to receive advice from different advisors. I think there diversity in our business is growing and I think it’s a very healthy thing. Can you talk a little bit about what you see in our industry?

Because everyone in our industry historically looks well like me. 

[00:08:20] Michelle Waymire: Yeah, for sure. So, um, I think I have a friend who often characterizes that as being male, pale and stale. Um, which, well, stale, stale 

[00:08:30] Eric Brotman: hurts. 

[00:08:31] Michelle Waymire: No shade. Um, 

[00:08:33] Eric Brotman: stale hurts. The other two are fine. Stale hurts. I’m not gonna lie. 

[00:08:38] Michelle Waymire: I think stale, not from the standpoint of the people involved, but from the stagnation in the industry.

Right. Yeah. Because if it is only male and pale forever, then that’s, that’s obviously a problem, so, mm-hmm. I do think there have been good strides to try and. Get, you know, more women, more L G B T folks, more people of color, um, underrepresented [00:09:00] voices who historically have not had a place in our industry are now finding that, um, this is a good and fulfilling work and that people need, you know, clients need their unique perspectives that they have to offer as, as being a part of those groups.

Um, and I’m grateful for. You know, because I think I, even, even in the last few years, I remember my first conference working for the mutual fund company. Um, I went to, to New York City for this, uh, mutual fund conference. Mm-hmm. And I would say it was probably two, 2% women. There was. Barely a, a person of color in the room.

Mm-hmm. The number of times I got asked whose secretary I was, was quite frankly embarrassing. Um, and so now even, even just, uh, almost a decade later, I’m, I’m already finding that, um, the energy in, in those types of rooms feels really different and in a positive and healthy way. So that’s nice. So, 

[00:09:52] Eric Brotman: so one of, one of the senior principals in our firm is an amazing woman, um, who still to this.[00:10:00] 

When going to various conferences is asked if she’s the plus one or if she works for some other, and it’s insane that that still goes on and she rolls with it now, but there’s no question that’s annoying. Like I would get so sick. No one asked me that. By the way, I never get asked who secretary I am. Um, and, and I can’t imagine how annoying that must be and how demeaning that must be.

Even if, even if it’s not meant in a harmful way, you can’t not take that as an affront. No. 

[00:10:33] Michelle Waymire: I think the first time it happened, I had a lot of big feelings about it, and I like, made me wanna cry and now I just think it’s hilarious. Uh. Mm-hmm. Like, I, I think my, my instinct now is mostly just to laugh.

Mm-hmm. And you know, in the south we have a phrase, bless your heart. Ah-huh. And I, and I think now that’s much more my reaction of like, oh, bless your heart, if you think that women don’t make good [00:11:00] financial advisors. Okay, honey Uhhuh. 

[00:11:03] Eric Brotman: I love that. So, so your, your moniker where you talk about the kind of work that you do and you talk about how you work with clients together.

Very, very, it’s a very collaborative process. I think that you’ve, that you’ve put forward and you say together we make your money work towards building a joyful, abundant, and giving. Um, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen that more, um, eloquently put or more, um, or more, uh, jointly imperfectly. I, I think those are the three things.

The fact that you’re talking about an abundance mentality, the fact that you’re looking to create a joyful life, and the fact that you’re also talking about giving, you’re also talking about paying it forward and philanthropy and making a difference. Um, I mean, you’re hitting all the right notes. How did you decide that this was, if, if you were picking three things?

What I don’t see is excellence and super [00:12:00] performance and the, the best, I’m the best stock picker on the market, thank goodness. I’m not seeing as much of that anymore. Yeah. How did you come up with that, with that trifecta? Because I really think it’s perfect. 

[00:12:11] Michelle Waymire: Yeah. I, I’m a big believer in an abundance mindset specifically.

I think that tends to be one of the words that I use a lot. I, I think there’s something. That feels, uh, energetically different than the word wealth. Mm-hmm. Um, because I feel like wealth is a. Is purely, it tends to be purely financial. It tends to just mean there is a lot of money. Uh, abundance feels more open-ended, right?

We can have an abundance of time, an abundance of freedom, abundance of good relationships, and maybe it is also an abundance of money. But I think leaving it open to the client to decide what they would prefer to have an abundance of and sort of guiding them on that journey. I also think one of the things that really stands out about a lot, a lot of the younger clients that I work with, [00:13:00] uh, are very mission driven.

So it’s not abundance as an end goal. It’s abundance as a means to an end. And for most people, that either means, you know, enriching your own life in a way that allows you to live with your. Helping others in your community, and preferably a combination of both, right? We wanna use our abundance, not just to make our own lives look wonderful, but also to help those around us.

Um, and I just, yeah, I feel really strongly about using, using wealth or abundance as that that means to the end. 

[00:13:33] Eric Brotman: So, uh, we can’t have a conversation together, uh, without talking about how, um, the lgbtq plus community is, um, is dealing with wealth and or abundance, uh, and gaining advice and how sometimes planning for your community is a little bit different.

Than, uh, and in lots of ways it’s very similar, but in other ways there’s some nuance. Um, how would you characterize the, [00:14:00] the, the specifics or the, the nuances that make planning for, for that specific community A little bit different. 

[00:14:07] Michelle Waymire: Yeah, so I definitely think it’s a combination of more of the, there’s certainly some technical elements that are different in working with L G B T folks, um, but I would also offer that there’s probably some like cultural or soft skills that, uh, make a big difference as well.

So, for example, um, I work with plenty of clients who do not use, um, what we would consider like, um, the most frequently used pronouns. So she, her, he, him, A lot of the population uses those. I have plenty of clients who use they, them or who will switch back and forth between she and they, or he and they, or a combination of things, uh, or even, you know, some, some lesser used pronouns that maybe folks aren’t as familiar with, uh, Z Zer for example.

So even just going into the process of working with a financial professional, I wanna make it [00:15:00] really clear to clients that their identity is welcome here. So I think what we’re seeing in the last few years is we’ve, we’ve made a lot of progress collectively as a society in accepting L G B T Q folks, and at the same time, we’re starting to see our resurgence of homophobia.

I mean the pulse shooting in Orlando, we’re starting to see all of these, um, laws passed across the country that target transgender individuals. So on one hand I feel like, um, I’ve gotten feedback before, maybe L G B T folks don’t need, you know, a, a specialty advisor. Now we have marriage equality. Now it’s all different.

Um, but one thing that I would offer is our laws are, are slowly catching up in some ways and we’re taking really big steps back in other ways. That make me feel called to, uh, make sure people know that they are safe, uh, working with me. Um, and then of course on the technical side, there are plenty of other considerations there.

Even through marriage [00:16:00] equality, there are plenty of, of, you know, partners who don’t necessarily prefer legal marriage. That brings up some, some challenging, um, implications for estate planning, for making sure that, um, assets are titled correctly. Um, and. You know, there’s a, a wide wage gap for L G B T folks.

Um, sometimes generational wealth, um, does not necessarily make it into the hands of L G B T folks because of, um, parental strife disown it from the family. So there’s definitely a lot of things that. Um, that need to be considered when working with this audience. 

[00:16:33] Eric Brotman: One, one thing you didn’t mention is now, um, the equality of divorce opportunities because now if, if you can get married, you can also get divorced, which is a, another new nuance in the L G B T community is.

Is divorce, which maybe hadn’t been thought of in, in quite the same way. Um, it’s interesting that you point out some of these things. The, the, the spots where there’s been traction, where there’s been progress are things that immediately resonated [00:17:00] with me. I got that like check. Yes, I get that one. I get that one.

The spots that you pointed out potentially as steps backwards. Did not immediately hit home for me. Like I, I, it’s almost like I hadn’t thought of it or hadn’t heard about it, or, and so that’s sort of an interesting thing as well, that, um, I guess depending where you get your news or where you congregate or where your, your social circles are, you might be more or less attuned to any number of, of, of those kinds of things.

So if it’s about creating a, a safe, welcoming, um, open environment for, for I presume anyone, Are there things that that advisors who don’t identify as part of that community can slash should slash had better be doing in order to not alienate your community? 

[00:17:50] Michelle Waymire: Yeah. Well, I think honestly, a big part of it from the get-go is looking deep down into your heart and deciding like, am I comfortable [00:18:00] working with this audience?

Because I know that there are, um, unfortunately still plenty of folks in, in this country. For whom that might not be true. Um, and so one thing that I would emphasize is that auth authenticity is key. So this is an underserved market. This is a market that, um, has resources. This is a market that needs assistance.

Um, and in my personal opinion, I think can also be a very profitable market and a very fulfilling and joyful market to work with. So there’s so many good things. Um, but at the end of the day, if your desire to work with L G B T clients, Comes from a place of wanting to improve your company’s margins, then that’s something that I would definitely encourage you to, to dig deep and see if there might be a niche that is more suitable for your own skills and interests.

Um, that said, if you have decided that you have a heart for this type of work, I would really encourage you to, um, get expansive with your definition of l g lgbtq. So I think in the mainstream media, we have prominently focused [00:19:00] on gay. And lesbian women often who fit fairly, uh, fairly stereotypical de depictions of what we think, uh, gay or lesbian, um, characters might look like.

What we don’t see as much is the be bisexual. We don’t see a lot of good, um, healthy representation of transgender folks in media. Um, and certainly q the queerness aspect of it, um, I think often gets kind of pushed under the. So I would, I would invite people to consider that it’s a long acronym for a reason that there are a lot of components to it.

Um, and it’s not just making sure that you have a, a gay friend who, who you invite for dinner sometimes, but actually that you fully understand the breadth and the diversity within this community, um, and that you are ready to open-heartedly serve anybody who falls under that. 

[00:19:51] Eric Brotman: So do you work, um, do you do any consulting or work with other financial advisors, or do you exclusively work with consumers?

With families [00:20:00] and, and with couples and with individuals? 

[00:20:03] Michelle Waymire: I, at this point I pretty exclusively work with, um, individuals, families, small businesses. Um, I do. I do offhand consult with folks who have questions about the L G B T community and want to have them answered by a queer person in a safe space.

Mm-hmm. So for folks who are generally, um, like genuinely interested in learning and growing, I’m always happy to, um, Meet with them and make sure that they have the support they need to, to be supportive to others. 

[00:20:33] Eric Brotman: If, if there are financial advisors who are, um, watching or listening to this today, um, who maybe aren’t as comfortable or as, um, as either knowledgeable or even as open, um, as you just described to this community, or are looking at profit margins rather than, um, some of the, the more qualitative, uh, softness to it as you mentioned.

Are, would it be something that [00:21:00] you’d consider doing, um, either collaborative work or strategic alliance work with some of these other advisors who might wanna be able to represent, for example, um, let’s say, let’s say a financial advisor, an old white guy, cuz. They’re old white guys is working with a couple and their couple has three children and one of their children is a part of the L G B T community, and for one reason or another, they don’t feel like they have the either the resources or the temperament or the comfort or whatever it is.

Whether it’s, whether it’s meant to be discriminatory or not, or whether it’s just the discomfort or whether that young person might not wanna work with that advisory firm for some of the same reasons. Would you be open to communication with other financial advisors about maybe represe? One family member in that, in that group.

Um, would that be something you’d consider doing for advisors who maybe have these opportunities where you could wind up being the advisor to some or all of the family where, um, where they can sort of be [00:22:00] heroes to mom and dad without pushing their son or daughter to, to make a decision that maybe they’re uncomfortable with?

[00:22:06] Michelle Waymire: Yeah, I think I would be open to that kind of work. I mean, I feel like L G B T folks. You know, worthy of good advice and deserving of support. Um, and if that’s something that, uh, other advisors find themselves challenged to provide, um, then I’m happy to help however I 

[00:22:24] Eric Brotman: can. Well, and, and even, and this is now a very long question, but the question’s longer than the answer, which is bad, uh, but.

Even if the advisor’s comfortable at, at providing the advice, if the client is uncomfortable with where that advice is being, atta. So if it’s not the advisor uncomfortable with the potential client, it’s the client saying, this advisor is not the one who’s gonna speak to me or for me, or, um, is, are you equally comfortable in that scenario where it’s just an opportunity to work with nice people who maybe don’t have a home with their family’s advisor?

Yeah. Absolut. [00:23:00] Okay. Um, I, I hope folks will, will hear this because there, I know there’s, there are other firms that specialize in L G B T and some, some wonderful ones and some relationships I’d like to help you make and, and introductions I’d like to make. But, uh, there may be the vast majority of advisors out there who are, uh, what was it, male, stale.

I’m stuck on stale here, Michelle, but whatever, whatever. Pale, right? Pale too. If, if those advisors want to collaborate with firms that have a, a specialty niche and you’re willing to be one of ’em, I, I think there’s an opportunity there to spread the word in a very positive way. 

[00:23:36] Michelle Waymire: Yeah. Thank you. I 

[00:23:37] Eric Brotman: would love that.

Okay. All right. So let’s talk a little bit more about the, your, your, your process, your philosophy on financial advising. I know it’s about abundance and it’s about joy and it’s certainly about giving back, um, where it’s 2023. We’re going through. We’ve just come off of covid, although I guess it’s not fully gone.

In fact, I don’t think it’ll ever be fully gone. But the, [00:24:00] the immediate, uh, shutdowns are over. Um, we’re struggling with things like return to the workforce and the workplace. Uh, we’re struggling with things and we as a country, as a, as a world, are struggling with, uh, inflation, which we haven’t seen, uh, in many, many years.

Uh, interest rates going up in ways they haven’t in many years. Um, volatile markets. Markets are always volatile in some ways, but right now there’s some discomfort. How are you helping folks navigate what is really a changing economic landscape right now? Yeah, 

[00:24:30] Michelle Waymire: so. I think a lot of my emphasis with clients is getting them to really think about what the long term looks like.

So I know that a lot of these factors are happening all at once. Um, especially for, um, younger clients, you know, they. Probably weren’t in the workforce in, in 2008, 2009. There’s not, um, a strong memory of, of what that looked like. Um, and at the same time, you know, so many of my target audience, um, sees these [00:25:00] terrifying news stories today, but they’re retiring 35 years from now.

So I think a lot of it is about perspective, um, and the education that. Uh, cycles do come and go. And the best thing that you can do for yourself is to really get clear on what you want, what your goals are, what you want your abundant future to look like, and then make a plan that is designed to, um, To, to, I guess, rely on the fundamental principles that stand regardless of the economic environment.

So making sure that you’re, you’re being efficient with how you’re, you’re investing your money, um, from a tax perspective, the types of accounts that you’re using, making sure that you have a, a well diversified portfolio, both, uh, among asset classes, uh, and also just within each asset class, avoiding things like single stock holdings or, or private holdings.

Um, things that are undiversified by nature. So, um, I, I know a lot of it is really boring, right? It’s, it’s boring old school investment advice, [00:26:00] um, but with a goals-based approach that I think helps people like see the forest and not the trees. 

[00:26:09] Eric Brotman: You’ll be pleased to know that I don’t find any of that boring.

Um, uh, because, because quite frankly, yes, it is, it is not trendy and trend following has its place in certain spots, but generally, market timing is a disaster. I don’t, no one can do it. And people who say they can do what you should run from. So I’m glad you’re not one of those people, or I’d have to tell everybody to run from you.

Um, no one can do it. You know, for, for many years. For many years, Peter Lynch was considered the, the brightest mind in, in, in finance. And when he retired, You would think that one of the largest fund companies in the world could find the next Peter Lynch, like, well, let’s go find him or her. And they never did.

And there are other, there are all kinds of cautionary tales about the fund at Du yours. The ones that that went wildly great until they didn’t. [00:27:00] And it’s so nice to hear that you’re still sort of preaching the fundamentals. It’s like the blocking and tackling mentality before you start running trick plays.

And I do think that that works. Where do people start if they’ve never had a financial advisor before? And I presume because you’re working with a younger audience, a lot of these folks have either never worked with a financial advisor, or they were sold something at their bank or at their workplace or something and it was lousy.

Where do you start? What’s step? 

[00:27:27] Michelle Waymire: Yeah, I would say there’s kind of a step zero. Okay. Which is even just encouraging people to take stock of what they have. So most people I find, uh, regardless of age, do not open their 401k statements. Um, they’re not really reading through their birth. Place benefits in detail.

Um, if they have debt, it’s rare that they’ve taken the time to get all the numbers in one place or look up the interest rates on all their credit cards. So I do think that there’s an element, even before I get in a meeting with somebody, I actually have a lot of homework as part of my onboarding [00:28:00] process.

Uh, and I find that the, the ask of getting people to pull all of their data and statements together before we meet, I’m, I’m pleasantly. Many of them tell me they already feel more organized before we’ve, we’ve even had a proper conversation. So I think I wanna empower them on the front end to say like, this is your money, this is your life.

You have access to all of these, um, helpful pieces of information at your disposal. So let’s get everything that we can in one place, and then we’ll really start to dig into your goals and take stock of what’s going on current. 

[00:28:35] Eric Brotman: So I, I refer to that as taking inventory. Um, and sometimes I, what I’ll tell folks is you can’t figure out if you, even if you know where you want to go, you can’t figure out a path till you know where you are.

It’s like the, you are here sticker on a map at the mall kiosk. You have to know where you are to figure out where the apple store is, that kind of thing. Um, yeah, so I totally agree with you on inventory being first and figuring out sort of where is everything? Do we have everything in one place? [00:29:00] And it does feel like a heavy lift.

If your clients like ours, look at that. It’s daunting at first. And a lot of the work, you called it homework. And I try so hard not to use the word homework because we believe in extra credit, but it is homework. There’s no other way to say it. And uh, and the homework really is, Gather all of this, find it.

We need to have your summary plan descriptions for your plans at work and your benefit statements, and not only what you’ve chosen, but what’s available to you when open enrollment comes. You know, we need to see more than just your bank balance. We need to have a sense of what your cash flow looks like.

We need to have a sense of what, you know, what 401ks you have from three prior jobs that are sitting being largely ignored because to your point, they’re not even opening their current 401k statement. They sure as heck aren’t opening the ones from three jobs ago. And just getting people and, and people are afraid of this.

They really, there’s a great fear and it’s the fear of the unknown. It’s recogniz. If I were to open the hood of my car today to try and fix something, [00:30:00] first of all run, there’s gonna be a fire of some kind. But second of all, it it, I wouldn’t know what the heck I was looking at. And people look at these statements, and that’s not to suggest to everyone.

There’s some folks who really do understand it and really love it. But I think the average. This isn’t what they think about all day. It’s what you think about all day. It’s what I think about all day, but they’re daunted by it, and they’ll open a statement and it’s 14 pages long and they’re not sure what they’re looking at, and they don’t know if this is this good or bad.

They don’t even know what they own. Yeah. So, oh yeah. How so? So how much of, how much of your process is educational? How much of it is financial literacy and empowerment to say, let’s make sure you not only know where you are and what decisions you’re making, but. 

[00:30:45] Michelle Waymire: Yeah, for sure. I think that is a big component of it on the front end for the data gathering.

Usually I let people know, like, I want you to approach this as if you were a friendly little explorer, right? Like all you’re doing is you’ve got a scavenger hunt to complete. You’ve [00:31:00] got a checklist of documents, and I don’t want you to worry about like, What they mean and what you’re doing right, and what you’re doing wrong, and, and, you know, trying to, um, like I, I ask people to do a budget spreadsheet for me as well, for example.

Um, but I hide the summary tab. I don’t want them seeing the pros and cons of their cash flow before we have an opportunity to process it together. So I’m like, I just want you to get a list of your bills and you’re gonna feel good and organized when it’s done and you’re gonna bring it to me. And as a team, you and I are gonna make sense of.

And we’re gonna figure out what we need to do next. Um, so I feel like the empowerment on the front end is a little bit more of like the, don’t worry about it, pep talk. Mm-hmm. Um, you just, you like, bring me these treasures and we’ll like sort through them together. Um, and then in the meetings, I think that’s where we get into a lot more, um, uh, explanation.

And, you know, some of the questions are very personal, right? Like, oh, sure. Um, I, I often ask. What they thought their [00:32:00] parents’ retirement looked like, or you know, have you ever watched, um, somebody in your household go through something like Alzheimer’s and how did that impact you? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so trying to, um, ask those questions from a place of like genuine curiosity and care, but also letting folks know.

Hey, the reason I ask this question is because we wanna plan for your future health expenses. If Alzheimer’s runs in your family, let’s account for that now so you don’t have to worry about it later. So whenever I ask something that feels a little stickier, I always try and let them know where it’s coming from and not just me like nosy and typing and like interrogating them about their lives.

[00:32:37] Eric Brotman: It’s, it, it’s funny, I, I do think, I do think that we’re kindred spirits because a lot of those things are so, they, they resonate so closely for me. Um, we have a document checklist, which I might change to treasure map or scavenger hunt just on, on the basis of this conversation, cuz I love that idea. Uh, there’s a, there’s an incredible.

Amount of qualitative questioning that goes [00:33:00] into getting to know folks, getting to know their family and their situation. You know, we build family trees for, for clients and it, it, at first it’s, well, why do you need to know who my siblings are? And then figuring out, Are you responsible for any of these folks in their legal documents?

Are they good people that you wouldn’t, who, who you could name in your estate documents? Um, the question that, that I ask every single, um, client when they first come in and are, are engaging, that gets the most eyebrow raises and, and or chuckles a lot is, is there anyone on your side of the family tree who could predictably leave you money or cost you?

Hmm. And when that question gets asked, um, almost everyone laughs and goes, well, no one’s leaving me anything, but these folks could. And, and so understanding that there might be a need to help your parents at the same time as you’re helping your children or, uh, or, or it does matter. And so we do ask questions that are, um, that don’t feel analytical.

They don’t [00:34:00] feel, hopefully they don’t feel nosy. Um, there, there, there is a reason for it all and it does come together and, and I, I liken financial planning to making Thanksgiving dinner. Where if you put the green beans and the Turkey in the oven at the same time, you’re gonna have some raw Turkey or some really, really overdone green beans.

You have to sort of do it as a, a process. So I, I wanna shift gears and talk about something fun. Not that financial planning isn’t fun, but when I said we’re kindred spirits, I want you to know that we, we share the same obsession. And I did not know we were obsessed with the same thing, but I also have a bear obsession and I see a bear behind you over your left shoulder.

Um, I actually went to Churchill, Manitoba and photographed polar bears on the tundra for a week at one point. Um, and the polar bear is my single favorite animal. Partly because it’s the only land mammal that hunts humans for food, which for some reason sounds interesting to me. Um, yeah. But where did your, where did your, where did [00:35:00] your bear thing come from?

I could tell you mine, but I want to hear yours. Where did that obsession come from? Oh my 

[00:35:05] Michelle Waymire: gosh. I have loved them ever since I was a kid. Um-huh. Just like innately. Um, there were plenty of other kids in my, like preschool who played with dolls. I had a substantial bear collection. Um, I had a, a small bear who wore overalls and would come to preschool with me every day.

Um, I just, I’ve always loved them. I actually have a, um, a bear. 

[00:35:35] Eric Brotman: Big bear. Alright. Will you win in the obsession game? I have not tattooed myself with a bear for the record. There are no tattoos of bears. Uh, you definitely win. But I just thought that was a neat thing. Like why, why the bear? 

[00:35:46] Michelle Waymire: Yeah. I just think there’s such an interesting mix of like, there.

They’re like soft and, and, um, beautiful and will rip your face off. Yes. It’s just such a [00:36:00] powerful combination of like, um, not one or the other, but both. 

[00:36:05] Eric Brotman: Yes. I, I think, um, Coca-Cola did us no favors by having the Polar Bear commercials because it just made me, when I saw them, I wanted to hug them and they would literally rip my head off, um, in one second.

One second. Yeah. So I, I know this isn’t what you thought you were talking about today. Um, and I know it’s not what our audience necessarily expected to know about the two of us, but it’s a treat. Well, here we are in the financial business where the worst word you can use is bear market. That’s two words.

Yeah, but it’s the bear. That’s the bad one. Market’s fine. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And yet we both have this weird, uh, affinity and fascination with these creatures. So anyway, I thought that was uniquely ours. I’m glad to share it with you. Yeah, I apparently for sharing, well, apparently I need a tattoo, so if you know a good artist, we’ll, we’ll have to, I’ll have to consider that.

Um, we’re getting close to the end of [00:37:00] our time together and, and I knew the show would run a little long, so for our audience, expecting half an hour, I apologize, but you just can’t get enough of. Michelle, I have two more questions for you. Uh, and the first one is, what do you wanna be when you. 

[00:37:16] Michelle Waymire: Oh gosh.

This is a hard and fun question because in so many ways I’m already doing it. Hmm. Um, and also I would love to host a retreat center. Like to have to, to be in charge of a place where people go to like decompress and heal to do the work that I do, but maybe do in groups, um, that would be, uh, the absolute tops.

[00:37:47] Eric Brotman: Hmm. Okay. So we can expect that to launch within the next five to 10 years. Yeah, I’m counting on you. My money’s on you. I’m betting on you. I know that’s gonna exist. Uh, happy to flesh that out with you. I think it’s a [00:38:00] very cool idea and a great thing to do when you grow up. Although I do confess, I tell my daughter not to grow up cuz adulting is a trap.

But if one must grow up, we don’t have to mature. We don’t have to mature. Uh, lastly there is you grow up without being a. Correct. I’m not doing it. I refuse. So, um, is, is there an extra credit assignment? You gave homework already, which I, I can’t, I couldn’t talk you out of it. It had already happened, but being that there’s homework and none of our, none of our listeners do homework ever apparently, but they like extra credit and they’re willing to do the assignment.

So I need an extra credit assignment from you. 

[00:38:36] Michelle Waymire: Yeah. Okay, fam, so here’s your extra credit. Um, I want you to carve out an hour of your day, um, to really think about what you want your joyful and abundant future to look like. Um, to set the stage, I’ll ask that you, um, make sure that this is time that you have uninterrupted, um, that you are in a place that is, um, pleasant for you and that you are preferably drinking something that’s enjoyable.

[00:39:00] Maybe that’s coffee, tea. Maybe it’s something else. You know, I’m not your mom, you. Um, and I want you to either, um, take a pen and paper, grab your laptop, whatever, and I want you to spend an hour really thinking, journaling, writing down what your most abundant self is doing. So I want you to really think about what a day in your life.

Uh, would look like in that world. How, how are you waking up? How are you feeling? Um, what are you eating? What are you spending your time doing? Uh, what are the thoughts running through your head in this future reality? I find that so many of us focus on goals in a way that is highly quantitative and highly time bound.

So we think about when we wanna do something and how much is it gonna cost. We don’t always take the time to really dig into what it’s gonna look like when we get there and how we’re going to enjoy it. And, Going to change life for us. So, um, so much of planning requires ongoing, um, emotional work. It requires ongoing commitment, um, and and maintenance to be to where you wanna be.

So getting clear on, on this [00:40:00] abundant future that’s waiting for you is the thing that’s gonna help you stick with the plan when, when sticking with the plan feels terrible. 

[00:40:08] Eric Brotman: I, I’ve had, um, we’ve had a lot of great guests give a lot of great extra credit assignments. I can’t say that that was number one, but it’s top five.

That was a great assignment. I love everything about it, and I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do the homework and I might even report back to you with the results of my homework. If you’re willing to grade it and be gentle. I need to be graded on a crowd. I would be honored. I would be honored. Okay. All right.

How can folks learn more about Young and Scrappy and learn more about you if they’d like to get in touch or, or learn more about the work you. 

[00:40:37] Michelle Waymire: Yeah, so the best way to find me these days is actually through my website, that’s young and scrappy.com. Um, there is contact information for me if you wanna connect via call.

Um, you can also schedule time with me there. You can learn more about the work that I do. Um, and certainly if you have any questions or you’d like to connect with me after this session, um, feel free to reach out. I would love to meet. [00:41:00] 

[00:41:01] Eric Brotman: Fantastic. Michelle Wehmeyer. Great, great guest. Thank you so much for being here.

It’s been, it’s been a treat and, uh, I look forward to continuing our friendship for many years to come and to, and to following your, your, um, not only your career, but the building of a retreat that I will attend. 

[00:41:19] Michelle Waymire: Good. I can’t wait to 

[00:41:20] Eric Brotman: see you there. You have your, you have your first, you have your first sign up right here on the.

[00:41:25] Michelle Waymire: Amazing. Well, thank you so much. I really 

[00:41:27] Eric Brotman: appreciate it. Um, thi this has been fun and to all of you listening and watching today, thank you. Um, it, we’d love to hear from you, so please send us a message or leave comments at don’t retire graduate.com or on social media. If you enjoy our show, don’t keep it a secret.

Share it with friends and family so they can join you on your journey to financial freedom. And please leave us ratings and reviews on your favorite podcast platform or online. Those are priceless to us. We will be back next week with another installment of office hours and in two weeks with another engaging guest.

For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman, reminding you [00:42:00] don’t retire, graduate.

[00:42:11] Narrator: Securities offered through Ketra Investment Services, L L C, Ketra I s Member Finra, S I P C, investment advisory Services offered through Ketra Advisory Services, L L c Ketra A s an affiliate of Ketra is, Ketra is, or Ketra as are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.