Eric joined Avik Chakraborty on the Healthy Mind, Healthy Life podcast to challenge conventional notions of retirement and introduce the concept of graduating into a new, more fulfilling phase of life. If you’ve been contemplating your future and are curious about how to reframe retirement into a period of growth and joy, this episode is a must-listen.
Avik and Eric dive deep into the innovative idea of treating retirement not as the end of a career, but as a graduation to a new, enriching chapter fueled by purpose and passion. Eric shares insights from over three decades of experience and discusses practical steps to ensure financial wellness, so you can retire with options rather than obligations. Together, they explore financial literacy, planning, and the importance of not adhering to outdated retirement constructs.
5 Key Takeaways
Reframe Retirement as Graduation:
Eric emphasizes that retirement should not be viewed as an end but as a springboard to a new and exciting chapter of life. It’s about moving into something better and bigger, much like how graduating from school opens doors to new opportunities.
Financial Independence is Key:
Achieving financial independence means work becomes optional, allowing you to pursue activities that bring you joy and fulfillment. This is the ultimate goal—enabling a lifestyle where you are financially secure without the necessity of traditional employment.
Non-linear Path to Retirement:
There’s no single path to achieving a fulfilling retirement. Eric explains that life’s journey doesn’t have to follow a rigid, linear progression. Instead, explore various routes and find what aligns with your passions and interests.
The Importance of Financial Literacy:
Understanding the basics of financial management is crucial in ensuring financial independence. From managing credit to understanding taxes, Eric stresses that financial literacy is the cornerstone of making informed and beneficial decisions about your future.
Take Inventory and Plan:
The journey towards a successful financial future begins with an honest inventory of where you currently stand. Establishing a clear starting point allows you to map out a realistic and effective plan. Whether starting small or dealing with debt, the first step is essential.
Avik Chakraborty [00:00:20]:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to Healthy Mind, Healthy Life. This is another episode to challenging the way you think about, well, everything. So I’m Hossavik. And today we are talking about the concept that flips retirement on its head. So imagine if retirement wasn’t about slowing down, but leveling up a graduation into the next most fulfilling chapter of your life. To help us unpack this revolutionary idea is the amazing Eric Brotman. Welcome to the show, Eric.
Eric Brotman [00:00:57]:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Avik Chakraborty [00:01:00]:
Lovely. Lovely. So, Eric, before we start our conversation, I’d quickly love to introduce to all of our listeners. Dear listeners, Eric is a financial adviser, educator, podcast host, and the author of the book Don’t Retire Graduate. So Eric’s all about empowering people to reframe their retirement, embrace financial literacy, and graduate into a life of purpose, joy, and the fulfillment. So ready to toss your cap in the air? Then let’s dive in. Welcome to the show again, Eric.
Eric Brotman [00:01:33]:
Thank you. I I’m ready. Let’s let’s get our cap and gown ready to go.
Avik Chakraborty [00:01:38]:
Great. Great. Lovely. So so, Eric, like and first of all, what inspired you to frame retirement as a graduation?
Eric Brotman [00:01:46]:
Well, for for a little over 30 years, I’ve been working with families and seeing people, watching people aim for retirement like it’s an end of something. And, you know, I was thinking about why anyone in their right mind would go from 50 or 60 or 70 hours a week of doing something hopefully they love to do, but doing something that they’ve been doing for their adult lives. And then just disappearing off the grid and watching daytime television and playing shuffleboard or golf or something every day. And it it just seemed like a very sad ending to an amazing life well lived. And so I thought there’s gotta be something on the other side of full time employment that’s rewarding and creates passion and creates purpose and makes people excited to get out of bed every morning. And so I thought about how we think about a college education or or any educational program. When when you graduate, are you finished? Is it the end? Yes. But it’s also a springboard to something new and ideally something better and bigger.
Eric Brotman [00:02:45]:
And that’s the way I thought retirement should be should be framed.
Avik Chakraborty [00:02:48]:
Lovely. Lovely. So why do you think that the
Avik Chakraborty [00:02:52]:
traditional idea of retirement is outdated?
Eric Brotman [00:02:56]:
Well, the traditional idea of retirement was was really thrust upon people by by various governments. I mean, the concept the earliest mention of retirement that I could find was back in Germany in the 1800. And it was, it was almost a punishment. It was, you were being put out to pasture and being told you’re no longer useful and you can’t work anymore. And I’ve seen that across Europe. I’ve seen it in the United States. I’ve seen it in Canada. And, and it just seems like no one would do that to themselves.
Eric Brotman [00:03:25]:
Why do we allow some arbitrary number to to to create a an end to something we might love doing? Like, this is this is not a this is not a 7 year period. You know, when it used to be, well, 65, okay, that’s fine because you only live to be 72. But now people live to be a 104. So what are you gonna do for 40 years?
Avik Chakraborty [00:03:49]:
So, I mean, about 40 years?
Eric Brotman [00:03:53]:
Yeah. I mean, what what are you going to do with a huge chapter
Avik Chakraborty [00:03:56]:
of your life? It could be a third of your life overall. It could be half of your adult life.
Eric Brotman [00:04:02]:
It makes no sense to me to to just disappear. And I see it online all the time. I look at LinkedIn profiles. If you ever see if you’re ever looking through your LinkedIn and you’re trying to network with people and you see one that just says retired, you’re not clicking on it. That doesn’t appear interesting to you. They might as well say deceased. Honestly, there’s no point. Don’t you’re not retired.
Eric Brotman [00:04:25]:
You’re maybe you’re a volunteer. Maybe you’re a grandparent. Maybe you’re maybe you’re doing a side hustle. I mean, I’ve interviewed folks on our podcast in their eighties who are starting businesses, but why not?
Avik Chakraborty [00:04:37]:
Great, great thought process, I would say. I mean, so it it’s, what I believe, like, we as a human being, we, we have become a robot. Like, we are trained, like, so after when we are in the childhood, we have to do the studies, then we have to get into colleges, Then we have to get into job or business. Then there’s a time, like, after 40, 50 years, you get retired and then it’s your life. But, that that’s that’s really true what you mentioned. Like, it’s it’s not. It’s all about our thought process, how we think, how we take our life ahead. So that that’s really great, thought process there.
Eric Brotman [00:05:21]:
Well, it’s it’s also not linear. I mean, there’s no reason why we have to take 1 step 1, then step 2, then step 3. We can dance all over the floor. I mean, there there there is there is not a, to me, there is not a single path, that that makes sense. I think financial independence and financial wellness are incredibly important. So I, you know, I’m not advocating that people work themselves to death and die at their desk at 87 years old. I’m saying if you can be financially independent, such that work is optional, and then you find things you love to do, why stop doing them just because you qualify for some kind of government benefit to do so? Makes no sense.
Avik Chakraborty [00:06:02]:
Mhmm. Exactly.
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Avik Chakraborty [00:06:33]:
Exactly. So on this, like, some people see retirement as a chance to be finally relax, like I was mentioning. So does your concept of, graduating take away from that?
Eric Brotman [00:06:48]:
Absolutely not. In fact, for trying to find things that bring you joy, there there’s a if one of the things that brings you joy is spending a week or 2 or 3 on an island somewhere at a beach, that’s great. There’s no reason as a financially independent human that you have to that you have to continue to work in
Avik Chakraborty [00:07:07]:
the way you are. But, you know, for
Eric Brotman [00:07:09]:
a lot of successful business people, they can go from that big job to doing consulting or serving on boards or doing some nonprofit work. And it can be at their leisure. It can be a 1 week a month. It could be 3 months a year. It could be just on Mondays Tuesdays. It can be anything you want to create. So this this idea of punching a clock from 9 to 5 is that’s the antiquated part in my opinion. And if you find something you love to do, it’s not work.
Eric Brotman [00:07:36]:
It’s work. If you’re if you’re digging ditches and you hate doing that, that’s work. That’s real labor. That’s hard. If you are doing something you love, whether it’s medicine or whether it’s education or whether it’s financial or whatever it is, if you love to do it, it’s a hobby that happens to get you paid. True.
Avik Chakraborty [00:07:54]:
I agree. I totally agree on this. Yeah. So also, like, from the listener’s perspective, I’m saying, like, they might wonder that how does financial literacy,
Avik Chakraborty [00:08:04]:
fit into this graduation idea? So what do you say on this?
Eric Brotman [00:08:08]:
Well, I think financial literacy is the first step toward financial independence or freedom because you really have to understand this well enough. You don’t have to be an expert, but you have to understand it well enough to not only ask the right questions, but to know when you need assistance, whether it’s from a tax standpoint or financial or legal. And having a legitimate plan, whether you do it yourself, and some people are perfectly capable of that, or whether you you hire some folks to help you navigate that, understanding it allows you to make better financial decisions with or without an advisor. So this is not a, a plea that every human should have a financial advisor. It’s simply not true. But when there are situations where an advisor can be helpful to you, you wanna know how to find one right for you. And that begins with understanding some of the basics, understanding credit, understanding employee benefits and insurance, understanding, how taxes work and how income works, and making sure that you’re that you’re handling your budget and that you’re not running up consumer debt and all those things that begins with some basic building blocks of financial literacy that isn’t taught in schools, at least not currently.
Avik Chakraborty [00:09:14]:
Okay. Okay. And, like, is don’t retire graduate, one size fits all approach or, it varies person to person also? What’d you say?
Eric Brotman [00:09:28]:
I I love that question because I often say that one size fits all doesn’t fit anyone. It fits no one properly. So no, it is not one size fits all and it is also not linear. The way the book has been structured and the way the workbook has been structured, you can pick it up anywhere you are along the journey, whether you’re just getting started and you’re 22 years old and you’re getting your 1st job, or whether you’re in your fifties and you’re trying to figure out the next phase of life. Every chapter is a is written like a college course, cash management 101, risk management 101, investment planning 101 and so forth so that you can pick up exactly where you are and it’s organized into the, the freshman, sophomore, junior and senior years of your financial life. So then freshman year, you’re thinking about, figuring out credit, maybe figuring out how to, how to navigate the job market, how to get out of student loans and so forth. And by software year, you’re thinking about buying a first home, maybe getting married or settling down, maybe becoming a parent. And by junior year, now you’re in a high income situation or a higher income.
Eric Brotman [00:10:31]:
Now you’re thinking about taxes and you’re thinking about building real wealth. And somewhere in your senior year, there’s not only the conversation about estate planning that I would argue has to start much younger anyway, but it’s also about vision and values and leaving behind things that are more important than stuff. It really is designed to be qualitative, leaving behind a bunch of money. You know, it’s been said that he who dies with the most toys wins. And I disagree. I think he who who dies with the most toys, a, still dies, and b, probably never played with half of them. So we’re better off leaving behind visions and values and, and really passing on, the essence of our lives and our purpose rather than just a pile of stuff.
Avik Chakraborty [00:11:14]:
Okay. Understood. Understood. So how can someone with little savings or maybe financial planning still graduate successfully?
Eric Brotman [00:11:24]:
Well, it it when you start at the very beginning, it is a longer journey. There’s no question. Any journey is longer when you’re starting in the beginning. And ideally people who are starting in the beginning aren’t starting in a hole. You know, we’re climbing a bit of a mountain here and if you’re in debt, you’re starting in a hole. You’re not even starting at sea level, right? So I do think it’s baby steps. I do think the first couple of chapters are designed to help with debt reduction, to help with basic budgeting, to help thinking about and learning about things like, like how interest rates impact both your savings and your debt, and how how various decisions early on will make a difference to you in the long term. The thing about starting early is that the biggest component to financial independence and success is time.
Eric Brotman [00:12:10]:
If you look at a math formula and, and it’s actually in the book though, I, I, no one is getting quizzed on this. There’s no test. But if you look at the math formula, the exponent is time. That’s the one that makes this really work. That’s what makes this exponential instead of linear. And so I think starting early means starting small. It might start with with avoiding credit card use or, it might start with putting away 20 or 30 or $50 a month. It doesn’t have to start with big, big numbers.
Eric Brotman [00:12:38]:
It has to start with behavior and with understanding.
Avik Chakraborty [00:12:41]:
Understood. Understood. So, so what’s the first step, like, someone should take if they want to rethink their retirement starting today?
Eric Brotman [00:12:51]:
The first step is always inventory. You have to figure out where you are. So if any journey you’re gonna take, whether it’s whether it’s, whether it’s physical or whether it’s, whether it’s emotional or psychological begins with understanding where you are. There’s always that sticker on a map that says you are here. And you have to be real honest with yourself about where you are financially. If you’re married or have a significant other, you have to be, you have to be very candid with each other about not only where you are, but where you hope to go. And what’s important to you along the way. And it starts with
Avik Chakraborty [00:13:24]:
that step that
Eric Brotman [00:13:25]:
the, if you, if you skip that step, you are joining the race, so to speak mid race, and you don’t know necessarily where you are. So inventory is first. And I would argue along the way, mindset is also incredibly important. Having, having made a decision that you are going to improve your financial outcomes in your financial life is a, it is a cognitive thing. It is a decision point, point just like it is to say I’m no longer going to smoke or I’m giving up cheeseburgers. Whatever it is, there’s a there’s a point where you say I’m going to make better habits, better decisions, and what a financial adviser sometimes can be is an accountability partner to help you along the way, almost like a trainer at the gym.
Avik Chakraborty [00:14:07]:
Okay. Okay. Understood. That’s really great, Eric. Like, thank you so
Avik Chakraborty [00:14:12]:
much for sharing your wisdom and completely redefining what it means to the transition into the next phase of life. It’s really, really awesome, I
Avik Chakraborty [00:14:21]:
would say. So, any tips you want to share with the listeners?
Eric Brotman [00:14:26]:
The the the tips that I would give, number 1, is don’t wait. Inertia is a very powerful force, and so it’s it’s really important to get started. If you’re really daunted and feeling uncomfortable about, about financial literacy, on our website, we have an online course that is free that anyone who would like to take and take. It’s 8 modules and it’s some of the basics of financial literacy. There are other resources available. Our company BFG, we have put out BFG University, which has online courses. We’ve put out BFG library, which has a lot of free resources. And so I would encourage folks to begin reading and understanding so that they can make good decisions.
Eric Brotman [00:15:04]:
And lastly, I would say, if you’re really thinking about financial wellness, which is different than financial success by definition, you can go to get financial wellness.com, and there’s a free download there as well to talk about all the ways in which you can make your your relationship with money healthier.
Avik Chakraborty [00:15:20]:
Mhmm. Got it. Understood. So lovely. So, dear listeners, remember that retirement isn’t the end of the road. It’s a new beginning, a chance to graduate into something even more fulfilling. So you can grab Eric’s book, Don’t Retire, Graduate, and
Avik Chakraborty [00:15:40]:
tune into his podcast and start your journey towards financial freedom and
Avik Chakraborty [00:15:44]:
the purpose. So until next time, this
Avik Chakraborty [00:15:46]:
is your host, Avik, reminding you that a healthy mind and
Avik Chakraborty [00:15:49]:
a healthy life go hand in hand. So no matter what stage of your life you are in. So stay curious, stay inspired, and here’s to your next big chapter. Welcome to with this, I welcome you all, everyone, to listen to this episode and share with everyone who actually, get to listen to this. So thanks.
Avik Chakraborty [00:16:28]:
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