Special Needs Trusts and Elder Care: What You Need to Know

Eric Brotman [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Don’t Retire, Graduate! The podcast that asks you what you want to be when you grow up so you can graduate into retirement with a purpose and a passion. I’m your host and valedictorian, Eric Brotman. And after nearly 200 episodes and a year long hiatus, Don’t Retire Graduate is back for season six. We’ll be bringing you interviews with amazing guests every other Thursday. And on alternating weeks, we’re hosting a new segment called Diary of a Financial Advisor, which we know you’ll all enjoy. So please subscribe and check out our all new episodes every Thursday. Today, I’m pleased to be joined by Nicole Hewitt. Nicole practices in the area of estate planning and estate administration, elder law, special needs planning, business planning, and title and real estate transactions with an emphasis on the tax aspects of each area.

Eric Brotman [00:00:48]:
She represents individuals, business owners, young families, individuals reaching retirement, and the elderly in connection with planning to meet their estate tax and medical assistance planning goals. In addition, Nicole works with individuals and families with special needs, including trusts and adult guardianships. Prior to co founding HWK law group, Nicole was a senior tax associate with two big five accounting firms and associate with a large prominent Baltimore law firm served as both general counsel and executive director to a national mortgage lender and broker, and was co owner of an affiliated multi state title company. She resides in Lutherville with her husband and three children enjoys frequent trips to Florida, playing tennis, traveling, skiing, and spending time with her family and friends. And I’m delighted she’s gonna spend some time with us this morning. Nicole, welcome to Don’t Retire Gradually. Thanks, Nicole. Bio is phenomenal.

Eric Brotman [00:01:38]:
Is there anything you don’t do? Let’s rule out anything. Is there anything you don’t do? Let’s start with

Nicole Hewitt [00:01:43]:
I try not to go to court is what I try not to do.

Eric Brotman [00:01:47]:
Me too, particularly as a non attorney, the less time I spend in court, the better off. So so our topic today, our topic today, which I think our audience is really going to like is the impact on pre and post retirees that is created with either a special needs child or with aging parents. And we’re gonna get into both of those topics at length. But did I miss anything in your bio? Anything else you’d like to do to introduce yourself and, and the work you’re doing?

Nicole Hewitt [00:02:14]:
Oh, no. I think you you have it covered. You have it covered.

Eric Brotman [00:02:17]:
I covered it. Okay. Yeah. So, so let’s, let’s break this into almost into quadrants. Let’s talk about pre retirees first because, you know, we spend a great deal of time talking about reaching financial independence and reaching financial independence is not linear. It’s exponential, but it also has its ups and downs. And some of the challenges facing families are not in the present generation. They’re in the generation before us or the generation behind us.

Eric Brotman [00:02:46]:
So let’s talk about that for pre retirees when you’re trying to save for retirement, but you also have, the expenses and some of the challenges created by say, special needs children. Let’s begin

Nicole Hewitt [00:02:58]:
there. Sure. So, from I mean, I think there’s two different perspectives. So you have the pre pre retirees, perspective of themselves and how are they going to retire. Provided for? So a lot of this really is kind of the magic around having some really good conversations with family, with your financial advisor, and just figuring out, you know, life is expensive enough when you don’t have you know, somebody with a special need, in your family, let alone when somebody does and how are you going to provide for yourselves and them, as you age? So it’s really challenging.

Eric Brotman [00:03:50]:
So for many years, we’ve been giving the airplane safety lecture to clients and saying, you know, in the event of loss of cabin pressure, masks will drop down, please secure your own mask before securing masks for others. And the idea is retirement’s the only thing you can’t borrow for, and therefore you should save for your retirement before worrying about your, your kids or other family members. The problem with that is special need kids. That situation really does take such a precedent. It, it almost can’t take a backseat to anything else. And, you know, we’ve certainly represented folks in that situation. And I do think it can be an all consuming, an all consuming task to not only care for special needs children now, but also potentially after you’re gone and your kids may not be in a position to be fully independent and need help, beyond your, beyond your lifetime. So how do you how how can you possibly put yourself first when you’re in that situation and and you have, what could be any a lifetime of financial need for someone you love the most in life?

Nicole Hewitt [00:04:54]:
Yeah. That that is a huge challenge. So, I look at it as let’s not swap. If I’m the individual planning for my, disabled, say, child, for example, I don’t want to put my well-being necessarily ahead of them because we’ve got two different kind of financial trains that are going at the same time. So there you can never start too early, number one. You know, when a child is small, I mean, really, these are things that people should be looking at, and not waiting until, oh, no, I’m reaching re reaching retirement age or, you know, somebody starts realizing their own mortality and wondering what about what what’s gonna happen to my special needs child. So the planning really should start early. Now that’s in a perfect world, but as we know, that doesn’t always happen.

Nicole Hewitt [00:05:42]:
So, when I’m having conversations with clients, you know, we’re really looking at how can we set money aside, for that disabled individual, if the caretaker, normally the parent is no longer around to help and take care of them. And oftentimes, a big piece of the planning involves life insurance, because, you know, people don’t have normally just millions and millions of nonretirement money just sitting in the bank to self fund these things. So a lot of times, we are looking as how can we convert some money into an insurance policy in a trust so that, you know, that disabled individual can be taken care of in the, you know, in the inevitable event of death because we’re all going to die at some point. We don’t know who’s going to go first. So how do we, have the liquidity to do this? So that’s a lot of times what we’re looking at.

Eric Brotman [00:06:39]:
So that was uplifting. Thank you for that. It’s true though. It, no, it’s, it’s true. I mean, we’re, we’re all mortal. So, so you mentioned the, the T word trust, which is really, really important because there are a lot of different ways that special needs children. And in fact, special needs adults can get various types of assistance from government programs and so forth where having money in their own names can actually invalidate their ability to get some other aid. We’ve seen situations where an aunt or uncle or grandparent is trying to be benevolent and leaves money to a special needs child.

Eric Brotman [00:07:17]:
And it actually can mess the planning up pretty solidly. So you actually have to make sure not only as parents that you’re leaving assets in trust in an appropriate way to not sacrifice potential government benefits, but that your other family members don’t accidentally leave money to your son or daughter because it could actually cost them more than it provides for them. How do you, how do you navigate those, those, you know, nine headed hydras of family conversations to make sure that doesn’t happen?

Nicole Hewitt [00:07:45]:
Yeah. That’s a tough one. You yes. A lot of people think, oh, gosh. We’re gonna really do do good and leave, you know, this this disabled individual in my estate plan. But it’s really important to have conversations. I think with anything that we’re talking about here today, conversations are huge. This is not the time for privacy.

Nicole Hewitt [00:08:03]:
This is the time to talk to the aunt or the uncle, to talk to the parent, talk about what the ultimate plan is going to be, because you’re right. We do not want cash going outright to a disabled individual because there are these wonderful government programs, everything from Social Security disability to Medicaid programs. And if an individual has more than $2,500 in their name, they lose access to these programs, that are out there. So it’s important that any sort of benevolent gifts, that are given from family members are put into a special needs trust. And there’s all different types of special needs trust vehicles. It’s not a one size fits all. They can be freestanding trusts that are created today. They can be trusts that come into existence in the future.

Nicole Hewitt [00:08:56]:
There are things called pooled trusts that, that nonprofit entities run these trusts, specifically for the management of disabled individuals. So a lot of this is just, the conversations, the education, and, you know, knowing if there is somebody who’s gonna leave money out there to to a disabled individual and then saying, okay. You know, we need to figure out the best way to get it to them.

Eric Brotman [00:09:23]:
So one of the questions we ask clients when they were prospective clients, when they come to to meet with us for the first time, we go through a family tree. We try to determine the cast of characters in our clients’ lives, because that does play a role. But we also ask, is there anyone who predictably might leave you money or cost you money? And people usually laugh a little at that question. And most of them say no one’s leaving me money, but there might be some folks who cost me money. And a lot of times that’s their parents or, you know, who either haven’t been able to save for themselves or what have you, having a conversation with the whole family is super important. And you said this is not a time for privacy, but I’m not sure that it’s necessary to quantify your desired benevolence as much as to qualify it. In other words, if, if your aunt and uncle or, or your siblings, or somebody says we want to leave money to your daughter who has some special needs, they don’t have to specify whether they’re leaving $5,000 or $5,000,000 necessarily, but it does mean that they need to leave it to the trust that’s being set up for her benefit. So the privacy, a lot of times people are very embarrassed about their net worth or about what they’re leaving behind.

Eric Brotman [00:10:35]:
And, you know, the word wealthy is a a loaded term because wealthy is so relative, like what is wealthy? So I think the privacy may extend to, the privacy may still extend to some of the quantifiable things. If there’s discomfort in telling your loved ones what you’re worth or what you’re leaving behind, or any of that, whether you feel it’s too big or too small, any of the baggage around it, that’s not really necessary to avoid this, this, third rail. Correct? We, we don’t have to know how much money it is. We just have to know if it’s coming, that it gets to your son or daughter in the right way. Correct?

Nicole Hewitt [00:11:09]:
Correct. I mean, look. In a perfect world, yes, you might wanna know how much is coming because that’s gonna impact the level of your own planning, and what you need to do. But, yes, if there is privacy in the fact of how much, that’s fine. We just need to make sure that whatever that amount is is put into the right vehicle to make sure that we are doing the best to protect that disabled individual, And that’s what’s most important.

Eric Brotman [00:11:35]:
So a trust gets created potentially for special needs kids. We want to make sure that the beneficiary doesn’t leave money to that child directly, and that it goes to the trust. There’s some really tricky things in beneficiary designations though, that trip people up. You know, beneficiary designations that are, for example, per stirpes, where they go by route, where they could accidentally leave money to the next of kin, including the special needs child. So it’s not enough just I think, to see that your lawyer and to have the special needs trust set up and either funded or prepared to be funded. It’s also really important to go through a full litany and review of the beneficiary designations that you have. And by the way, that the grandparents or aunt and uncle have, if they’re, if they’re have you seen situations where the, and I’m gonna put it in quotes, because there’s no such thing as perfect, but where the perfect, maybe your legal plans are perfect, Nicole. I, I grant you that, but where the perfect legal plan gets gets, subverted by a complete accident in a beneficiary designation.

Eric Brotman [00:12:35]:
Have you seen those kinds of scenarios?

Nicole Hewitt [00:12:37]:
Oh, absolutely. I’m just dealing with one right now where, where it was a situation where the and this is more with an elderly individual, but still the same disability kind of, principles apply. But where a daughter passed away prematurely before the parent and the daughter did not have any of her own children. And according to Maryland law, that all the assets of that that child now passes to disabled mom who’s in a nursing home. So there’s a lot of, like, planning where people aren’t thinking about, we don’t have a crystal ball. We don’t know who’s gonna die first, who’s gonna die second. So we have to think about kind of the it’s a little bit morbid. We have to think about worst case scenario down the line.

Nicole Hewitt [00:13:32]:
So it’s it’s, thinking if person a does not survive, now what? And even if person b doesn’t survive, now what? I always talk my client to my clients, I am planning for doomsday. It’s hopefully, that never comes. But we are planning for if, you know, the whole lineage is gone. What’s the next step?

Eric Brotman [00:13:55]:
Well, you know, for some reason, and I shouldn’t be laughing at the doomsday scenario, but it conjures up a memory about George Carlin talking about if there’s an explosion at thanks And so it just, if the whole family is wiped out, then what happens? But, but I hear you people travel together. They take cruises together. They get on airplanes together, whatever. And, and without getting morbid, that certainly happens. Let’s shift gears a little bit. Now we’ve talked about special needs kids. And of course we could talk about ABLE accounts and some of the, the techniques, but for today, without getting into the, without getting into the weeds, it’s really just a, a, a call to action, to talk with an attorney who is a special needs, attorney and to talk to your financial advisor and to talk to your family. So let’s shift gears and talk about aging parents.

Eric Brotman [00:14:40]:
I don’t know about you, but I’m, faced with this, at this very moment. So it, it hits very home to me. When you have parents who are getting older, who who either are in a position where they need some help managing their affairs or potentially they need some help financially, what does that do to to pre retirees and even post retirees who are 70 and have living parents?

Nicole Hewitt [00:15:03]:
Mhmm. Yeah. That creates a big challenge. I mean, I think there I was just talking with somebody this morning about this big misconception of people think, oh, I can age, I can age in place. There’s government, you know, money to help me with this. My kids will take care of me. There’s this kind of this mentality that things will just work out and things just don’t happen. There there needs to be some planning when it comes to to aging.

Nicole Hewitt [00:15:34]:
I do a workshop where I ask people to write down all of their wishes of what they would love, what they would like their aging process to look like. They’re like create the most beautiful perfect wish wish list. And then at the end, when everybody’s feeling really good, I say, okay, do we know how we’re gonna pay for this? And it’s amazing how then people like kind of scratch their head and they’re like, I don’t know at this point. And that’s where conversations with financial advisors need to happen. This is where conversations with your children need to happen. You know, children are as we pointed out, they’re just trying to save for their own retirement. They may be raising children. You know, there’s a lot going on in their life.

Nicole Hewitt [00:16:19]:
And then when they’re faced with a situation where they have a parent who has not put a lot of thought into the next phase of their life, it can create stress all around for everyone. So everything down to, can I stay in my home? To, do I have money to bring in in home care? Do I need to downsize right now? Lots of considerations.

Eric Brotman [00:16:43]:
So one of the, one of the considerations is around long term care and the expenses of aging. I think there’s a misconception that Medicare covers long term care, which to a very tiny extent it does, but really it doesn’t. And, you know, I I can tell you that the conversation I had with my parents was very, very simple, Nicole, and I’m gonna I’m gonna share some inside baseball. I said, you don’t none of you. You don’t have to leave me a penny, but please don’t have me paying your bills at any point in time. And specifically, I need you to have long term care insurance if you can qualify for it. If you’re not willing to buy it, I’m gonna buy it for you with your permission. Nice.

Eric Brotman [00:17:18]:
And by the way, if I’m buying it for you, I’m gonna mention it every Thanksgiving, and you don’t want that. So they all did it because they didn’t want that coming up at every family event. But I, and I say that tongue in cheek, but the reality is if if my parents spend every last nickel they have and live with dignity and are okay to their very last breath, we win. You know, it’s not about an it’s not about an inheritance. It’s about not having me pay for a nursing home and college at the same time, because ultimately that’s really tough. And you know, you mentioned, oh, my kids will take care of me. There’s, there’s a lot around that. And it’s one thing to show up at mom or dad’s house and help them pay some bills and bring them some groceries.

Eric Brotman [00:18:00]:
And it’s a whole nother thing to put them in the shower or help them go to the bathroom. And, you know, people, I think aren’t thinking about that. The, the things that we can do for our loved ones to help out, you know, going and helping take care of the yard or, or do some things around the house. That’s one thing. But when you really start talking about the need for intermediate or skilled care, nursing care, medical, you know, handling prescriptions, all those kinds of things, Unless you’re a nurse or, of some type that you don’t have the background for that. And I don’t know about you, but I never want my daughter having to shower me. It was better. She didn’t like when I showered her when she was four, she said I did it wrong or mom did it right.

Eric Brotman [00:18:36]:
But she definitely doesn’t want to do that for me. So what do we tell folks who who really are insistent that their kids are gonna take care of them? Do you talk to the kids sometimes and say, is that really the plan?

Nicole Hewitt [00:18:49]:
I encourage when I’m meeting with people to come together as a family and let’s have conversations. So if I’m doing a planning for a parent, I encourage them, let’s bring their children in and let’s let’s have a conversation. You tell them what you want at that moment. If you want to age in your house, let’s talk about it because the kids will then say at that point, okay, that that’s great, but how are we gonna pay for it? Let’s set up a plan for how it can be done. And again, if the reality is that this is not going to work, then we need to face it head on now and not wait until there’s some sort of family crisis because people have jobs. They have lives. And the most stressful thing I see happen is where kids now are are trying to work their full time job. They’re trying to put their kids through college.

Nicole Hewitt [00:19:37]:
And now all of a sudden, there’s this new job on their plate of having to provide for the care of a parent. And that it’s devastating. It ruins relationships. You know, it decimates people’s financial situation. And and I tell people as they age, what legacy do you want to leave for your family? Do you want happy memories of your kids thinking about those thanks giving dinners and those happy times? Or do you want the memories at the end being, you know, stress and creating, you know, health issues for yourself, and just this bitterness at the end? There’s even if you don’t have a lot of money, there’s things that you can do to eliminate that type of stress for you and your family.

Eric Brotman [00:20:21]:
So anytime I get to interview a real expert, I always get a little bit of free advice, which I’m very excited about today. Some free advice. What do you do when one of your parents really shouldn’t operate a motor vehicle anymore? I know you’ve been through these. I know you’ve been through these conversations. What do you do when that is the last lifeline of independence? And yet it’s it’s a a time bomb too.

Nicole Hewitt [00:20:47]:
I this is really tough. I wish I had the secret solution for this. We all call this in in the office, you know, when parents are in the the gray because they’re they haven’t lost competency to the point where you take everything away from them, but you’re still trying to keep some dignity. It’s tough. You have to reverse roles at this point. The best advice I give clients are you are now the parent and they are the child. Imagine if your child was getting tickets all the time and being a horrible driver. What would you do with your child? You have to do it the same way with a parent, and your parent’s not gonna be happy with you.

Nicole Hewitt [00:21:26]:
They’re not. Nobody’s happy in this situation. But for the safety of everyone, you have to make some tough decisions. And the the hardest ones are when children aren’t willing to make those decisions. I get lots of calls where they are, you know, kind of crying to me and I’m like, if you’re not willing to make the hard decision, there’s not much more I can do for you. It’s kind of harsh, but it’s really tough. It’s really tough.

Eric Brotman [00:21:53]:
All right. Well, that’s not the answer I was hoping for. I hope, I was hoping you had some magical thing. Like you would show up and be like the key fairy and take the keys off the dresser or something, and, and that it would just take care of itself in some way. So, so if there was a call to action today, if there was one thing that people dealing with either, their parents getting older, which for, for those of us blessed to still have living parents, it’s a blessing, but it’s also a, a responsibility. Or where there are some special needs children who who are going to need some care beyond what is the the first or maybe the first step or two that people should take immediately after spending some time with us today?

Nicole Hewitt [00:22:32]:
I think it’s to sit back, especially with the holidays coming up. Sit back and observe your parents, you know, as they age and really look and see, okay, do they need my help right now? Don’t wait until they’re so far gone, to start that help process. Start with the conversations, you know, just talk. That’s the biggest thing I tell my clients, when they’re dealing with their parents to sit back and say, hey, mom or dad. Like, I just got doing all of my planning. We had some really great conversations. Where are you in the process? Turn it around so it’s kind of like you’re not saying, to them, like, pointing the finger at them to make a point of you haven’t planned, you haven’t planned, talk about your own planning and then turn that into kind of a positive conversation with them. And again, with special needs, family members, it’s also kind of taking that look back and not looking at it from a scared perspective.

Nicole Hewitt [00:23:33]:
Looking at it from, how can I give myself some peace of mind and really do well and do good things to make sure that my loved one is really taken care of? Again, having the conversations with family members when you have somebody with special needs. If I’m gone, who can I call on for support? How can I set up the right support to make those other people successful in helping my disabled child, for example? So it’s really, you know, conversations and thoughtful planning. And then at that point, once you’re kind of in the right headspace, calling the right professional, to make sure that things are done correctly because that’s the biggest thing I see sometimes is people wanting to, you know, everybody wants to save a dollar. And that’s great, but when it comes to these things, this is not the time to, you know, kind of do the the cheap option. It’s time to do it right and do it well because doing it wrong can be just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Eric Brotman [00:24:38]:
So great call to action. I’m going to throw a curve ball at you because you have, an elder care or an elder law background as well. I’ve been reading more and more about the ways in which states are trying to go after a grown kids for, Medicaid spending that happened on behalf of their parents, filial laws and such. For many years, the idea was to bankrupt grandma so that she could qualify for Medicaid. And that’s, I guess it still happens occasionally, but I think it’s a lot harder to do than it used to be. Are we seeing states, who are paying the lion’s share of Medicaid for for elderly people? Are we seeing them go after successfully go after the next of kin for reimbursement of some of those expenses?

Nicole Hewitt [00:25:24]:
So they’re not going after per se, people for that type of planning. But in most states, there’s a look back for gifting. So, states vary generally from three to five years. Maryland in particular is a five year look back. So if, we take and mom or dad wants to, you know, gift away their entire savings that might be $500,000 say, They gift it to the child. As long as they stay out of the nursing home and healthy for five years, then we’ve protected that full 500,000, for the kids or for the kids to use towards any sort of assistance for mom and dad in the future. Now, if in that five year period mom or dad gets ill and needs a nursing home stay, then yes, kids either need to give that money back or mom or dad’s not gonna qualify and they’re gonna look to somebody to pay pay that money or say here, you gotta take mom or dad in. They’re yours.

Eric Brotman [00:26:22]:
So if you’re still looking to bankrupt grandma, you should do it when she’s a little younger. Is that the, that’s the moral of the story?

Nicole Hewitt [00:26:29]:
That’s the moral of the story. And lucky, there’s some moral

Eric Brotman [00:26:32]:
Absolutely terrible.

Nicole Hewitt [00:26:34]:
There’s some moral compass to this planning. I know we do this Yeah. Of elder planning. And if somebody comes to me and they’ve got a couple million dollars, I can’t in my, you know, in good conscience say, okay. We’re gonna bankrupt mom and dad so that they can get on a state program. What if somebody comes and they’ve got a few hundred thousand dollars or all their they have is their house? Then, yeah, we might wanna do that type of planning because for Medicaid planning purposes, you have to get somebody down to their last $2,500 before they qualify. And the Medicaid program is great, but they don’t cover anything. Like, the best example I can give is this.

Nicole Hewitt [00:27:12]:
They don’t cover, say, good dental care. So if mom and dad are in a nursing home on Medicaid and they’re having dental issues, Medicaid solution is just pull all the teeth. They don’t go in and help with, you know, they they give you, like, one set of bridges, like, every, say, five years and people in nursing home lose those all the time. So, you know, it’s nice to have a little bit of money set aside for, say, dental work. That’s just one example. So I’m

Eric Brotman [00:27:40]:
picturing each of my parents I’m picturing each of my parents with no teeth right now. I mean, just just the mental image I’ve conjured up is I appreciate that very, very much. We’re almost out of time and there’s no way you’re getting through an episode of Don’t Retire, Graduate without being on the hot seat. And I need to ask you what your personal plan is and what you wanna be when you grow up.

Nicole Hewitt [00:28:04]:
Oh, so this is kind of a funny one, but easy. I believe in another life. I, was maybe a contractor. I love projects. I love to build things. I’d go back to, like, community college and get my some licenses in learning how to do woodworking and be a contractor and build things. I’m a builder.

Eric Brotman [00:28:31]:
That’s fantastic. And, and my wife wants to redo the powder room. So we’ll, we’ll have you, you can have your first project right away. If you would like to do that, we can make that happen. Where can folks learn more about you and get, and get in touch with you if they have questions about either special needs planning for a a young one or planning for their aging parents or just estate planning in general?

Nicole Hewitt [00:28:51]:
Sure. So my number is, (410) 567-5504. Our website is hwklawgroup.com. And you can reach out, and we would be happy to have these conversations or start these conversations.

Eric Brotman [00:29:13]:
Terrific. Well, we will put those notes in our show notes so that people know how to get in touch with you. Also, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention that you and I are going to be collaborating on a webinar in March. This is March of twenty twenty five. Now we’re talking about March 25 at 10AM Eastern time. We’re collaborating on a, a webinar about the tax cuts and job act of 2017 and its potential sunset. And in wake of the election, there’s, there’s now some controversy around whether it will sunset in full or in part or not at all. And so between now and March 25, we’ll be doing lots of homework so that we can provide, all of our viewers with as much, information as possible, knowing what could be coming December thirty first of twenty twenty five.

Eric Brotman [00:29:58]:
So that’s Tuesday, March 25 at 10AM Eastern. Nicole, thank you for being on the show. This was fantastic. I knew it would be, and you’ve given us a lot of great nuggets that, other than how to how to get the keys from dad. I I think I got everything I could possibly want out of you, so I appreciate it very, very much.

Nicole Hewitt [00:30:14]:
You’re welcome. And if you find that secret solution, please let me know.

Eric Brotman [00:30:19]:
I will. I’d like to thank everyone for listening and watching today. If you enjoy our show, please subscribe, leave a rating on your favorite podcast platform. Share it with your friends and family so they can join you on your journey to financial freedom. If you’d like to send us a topic or idea you’d like to discuss in a future episode of Don’t Retire Graduate, please post it on our Facebook page or tweet us at BrotmanPlanning. We’ll be back next week with another entry in our diary of a financial advisor. And in two weeks with another engaging guest. For now, this is Eric Brotman reminding you don’t retire, graduate.

Voiceover [00:30:56]:
Securities offered through Kestra investment services, LLC, Kestra IS, member FINRA SIPC, investment advisory services offered through Kestra advisory services LLC, Kestra AS, an affiliate of Kestra IS. Kestra IS or Kestra AS are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.