Voiceover [00:00:02]:
Welcome to the purpose focused adviser, a podcast for financial planners, advisors, and RIAs looking to get the most out of yourself and your business. Join Rob Brown and Phil Calandra as they walk you through a journey that will allow you to take action in your business and your life so you can be the best that you can possibly be. Now here are your hosts, Rob and Phil.

Rob Brown [00:00:33]:
Welcome everybody back to another episode of the purpose focused advisor. I’m Rob Brown along with my partner and cohost, Phil Calandra. And today, we have with us Eric Brotman, a very interesting, financial adviser with a great story that I wanna make sure that we dig into as we go through this episode today. So welcome aboard, Eric. Tell us a little bit about, yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Eric Brotman [00:01:06]:
Well, without dating myself, I’ve been a financial adviser for 31 years, which is hard to believe. Happened, almost overnight. But I I I started a firm 21 years ago in suburban Maryland outside of Baltimore, BFG Financial Advisors, and we grew from a startup with 1 full time and one part time person, to now a shop with 20 employees, 8 financial advisors and clients in 30 6 states. So we’ve we’ve built quite a machine here, and, and we’re taking care of hundreds of families all over the country. In my spare time, I I also do consulting for financial advisors and started a consulting practice a number of years ago that’s been fun, and a media company. So I’m doing podcasting and writing books and and white papers and and all of that. I still find time to serve on some nonprofit boards. And, of course, I like to be a full time father and husband as well.

Eric Brotman [00:01:56]:
So it’s a it’s a full life, but a great

Rob Brown [00:01:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. No. Sounds like a very, very busy, but exciting life. Yeah. And I just love the the smile in your voice, because when you sometimes when you talk to somebody who says, hey. I’ve been at this for 31 years, The the the voice inflection goes down. Like, tired, but but you look you sound like you are excited about what you do and what and the plans that you have for the future.

Eric Brotman [00:02:25]:
Well, I am. I mean, one of the one of the beauties of being an adviser who’s this, seasoned slash wise. I like those better than old, but the beauty of being an adviser at this stage of of my career is that we really building the right infrastructure can spend almost all of our time doing the things we love to do. You you know, when you have enough people and you have enough systems and you can find people who love doing the things that you don’t love doing anymore, it makes every day better.

Phil Calandra [00:02:51]:
That’s so true. That’s a great point, Eric. I I was gonna ask you, but you kinda answered it after 30 plus years.

Eric Brotman [00:02:59]:
Yeah. How

Phil Calandra [00:03:00]:
did you get to where you are with the team you have and not burn out prior to that, you know, getting it to where you are now?

Eric Brotman [00:03:12]:
Well, I you know, frankly, Phil, I had periods of burnout along the way. So I, you know, I think it’s, it would be foolhardy for me to say, oh, yes. This has been a steady stream and a and a meteoric rise and everything’s perfect. I I had times of, periods of burnout along the way. You know, the first 10 years of of my practice, I I didn’t take a week off. I mean, I I was living at the office. I was nights and weekends and and working all the time to try and build it. And, of course, you know, our young employees who some of whom weren’t even born at that time, look at me now and think, man, how does he do so well? He doesn’t even seem to work full time.

Eric Brotman [00:03:47]:
I’m like, that’s correct. But I’ve already put in those hours, and I’ve already experienced that burnout. So, you know, some of it is growing a team organically that is that really has the right attitude and the right aptitude and who works well together. You know we’ve surrounded ourselves here with people who are, enthusiastic and ethical and energetic, but also people who have different passions. I mean, we’re not all the same. And and we’ve got a very diverse crew. We’ve got a very young crew, compared to a lot of financial advisory firms, and we’ve built career paths for young advisors that almost don’t exist out in the, in the the business. So, you know, we’ve had folks contact us out of the blue and say, I your your firm, you’re offering a job that doesn’t exist anywhere.

Eric Brotman [00:04:34]:
So either you’re full of it or I gotta I gotta meet you. And so that’s been kinda neat. I love that.

Rob Brown [00:04:40]:
Yeah. And I I love to dig into that a little bit more, Eric, because that really stood out to me, as one who spends a lot of time helping advisers build teams that, you’re doing it, in a in a different way. And I think that’s something that would be really helpful for our audience who are trying to bring on junior advisors, thinking about succession plans, thinking about having, you know, bigger firms with, you know, maybe multiple offices. You talk talk a little bit about kind of your your, I I think you would call it an apprenticeship.

Eric Brotman [00:05:19]:
Yeah. Almost. Yeah. We we have we have an internship program first, and our our new hires tend to be, though not exclusively, but a lot of them tend to come right out of college. And when you come right out of school, you you have a lot of energy, and, hopefully, you have some grit. But what you don’t have is experience or clientele or all the things that a lot of advisers look for. They want somebody seasoned. I know that when I started in the in the industry, I couldn’t get a job at the wire houses.

Eric Brotman [00:05:48]:
They wouldn’t hire me. I was in my early twenties, and they said, you don’t know anybody. You don’t have a book of business. We don’t wanna talk to you. And so I did what any logical 21 year old kid who wanted to start a practice would do, and that was I went to the insurance business because they would hire you if you could fog a mirror, in which I could do at the time. So, as a result, you know, for me, it was all eat what you killed. And I wanted our young people to come in, learn the business, get their education, their licensure first, of course, and then their education, and be able to work with and take great care of existing clients and not have to sell anything to anyone. They don’t have a business development requirement.

Eric Brotman [00:06:25]:
They don’t have a sales component. They’re not paid for any kind of transaction or sale or or, outcome from that standpoint. All of our advisors are salary. People say woah how in the world do you pull that off and you know we use the the metrics that are readily available I mean investment news does a a full study every year on compensation, based on what your role is. We stay in the top quartile for compensation, but it’s all salary. And then if there are profits to be shared, we certainly share them with our team. But, but this is a salaried gig so that clients don’t ever feel that moment. And you know, you guys were young advisors at one point in your lives.

Eric Brotman [00:07:05]:
You know that a client smells your desperation like a dog smells fear. And if you need to get them to yes more than they need whatever you’re doing, it’s not a good way to start a relationship. It’s not a healthy dynamic. So, So, so, yeah, we hire folks right out of school, and we tell them it’s gonna be 5 years before you’re sitting in front of a client by yourself. And some people think, oh my gosh. I can’t wait that long. I have to get in right away. But for the right person to say, okay.

Eric Brotman [00:07:32]:
I’m gonna come in. I’m gonna get my licenses. I’m gonna be in the investment operations department. I’m gonna open accounts. I’m gonna handle transactions. I’m gonna learn the investment process, the insurance process, the planning process. I’m gonna sit 2nd chair with seasoned advisers and sit in meetings and help do the preparation, maybe help craft some of the recommendations, take all the meeting notes, do all the follow-up, and meet some folks. It’s an incredible job straight out of school.

Eric Brotman [00:07:56]:
Frankly, I wish it had existed when I was 21 and looking for an opportunity. I had to learn so much more, so much better, than than sort of doing it the way I did. And so we’ve got folks here who’ve been with us 12 13 14 years who started as unpaid, in some cases, college interns. Some of whom are now principals in the firm. So it’s a proven track record, a proven career path, and and now we have folks who say, okay. We’ve see we see that you’ve done this. Now we wanna join. I mean, it’s always hard to be first.

Eric Brotman [00:08:27]:
But I started selling equity in my practice when I was in my late thirties. People thought it was nuts. They said, why would you it’s like if you’re a farmer and you farm for watermelons, you don’t sell them. If If you’re selling them by the pound, you don’t sell them until they’re fully grown. Why would you do that? And what I realized was if I didn’t do that, number 1, I would be cutting off my own succession plan. Number 2, I’d be losing the best people because the people who really wanted it and to be entrepreneurial and to have skin in the game and really, you know, be in that in that mindset weren’t gonna stay if they didn’t have the opportunity. So I was gonna keep the weakest links and lose the strongest people. That makes no sense.

Eric Brotman [00:09:06]:
Yeah. So I I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard people other advisers say to me, why do you spend so much time and energy and and money on your employees’ education? Are you afraid they’re going to leave? To which I say, it’s certainly possible, but I’d rather educate them and have them leave than not educate them and have them stay.

Rob Brown [00:09:27]:
That’s so good. Yeah. Yeah. No. It’s it’s right on. And and so as I was listening to you talk about selling equity to Mhmm. To these younger, advisors, You know, one of the challenges that, I always see is helping that younger adviser understand the value of that equity versus, the wanting the high you know, even higher income now, you know, kind of the, you know, pay me now, don’t pay me later sort of thing. How do you how do you create that sense of of ownership that really is is enticing and doesn’t, and is in is and they realize it, and not just Yeah.

Rob Brown [00:10:15]:
They’re not just thinking about, can you increase my pay or payout or whatever it might be?

Eric Brotman [00:10:22]:
Well, I I think there’s about half a dozen ways to answer that. But but they all boil down to one thing, which is walk the walk. You know, my salary is not top dollar. My salary is fair for what I do and for the job that I do, and most of my income, frankly, comes from distributions from the organization. And so we represent enough clients who work for various companies for whom their restricted stock or their stock options or their equity are by far and away their most valuable asset. And our young people see that. We’ve been doing business valuations for 15 years. I can show them how how the performance of the company on paper has been in addition to, you know, all the other variables.

Eric Brotman [00:11:02]:
So, this is a passive investment, arguably. It’s a it’s an expensive investment. Equity is never given at our shop. It’s always sold and it’s sold at a fair market value. We do finance it if need be. We’ll finance it very, attractively to try and and and make it doable. We we certainly aren’t trying to squeeze out every last penny. We we want it to be fair, but we also want it to be possible.

Eric Brotman [00:11:26]:
But I I think so far, most of the folks who’ve been offered equity, and we have a whole sort of list of things that happen in their careers before that time comes. But most of the folks who’ve been offered equity have said yes, and and the only ones who haven’t, have said, I I wish I could, but right now is not a good time. I hope this opportunity continues to exist. And that might be because they’ve got 4 kids in private school. I mean, at the end of the day, you have to make your own decisions based on your own financial life. Just because an investment opportunity comes along doesn’t mean it’s the right time for you.

Rob Brown [00:11:56]:
Right. Right. Yeah. That’s great. Yeah. And I and I I hope our listeners who are thinking about bringing on that junior partner, considering, oh, do I do I hire the the young person out of college, or do I go find somebody that, you know, has a few years of experience and maybe some bad habits, but at least I don’t have to pay them to learn the business. Can can pick something up from this because there’s a there’s a lot packed in what you just said.

Eric Brotman [00:12:27]:
Well, what I would tell listeners is don’t wait until you’re 55 to start trying to identify a junior. It’s too late. But not that you can’t do it then, but you you won’t be able to monetize it then. No 25 year old or 30 year old adviser is gonna be able to come in, be 25 or 30 years younger than you, and afford to retire you when you decide you’re done. The math will not work. If you’ve built a nice business, the math won’t work. You need to have folks who are 10 to 15 years your junior. And so, you know, when I was 38 and I had somebody on board who was 23, that worked.

Eric Brotman [00:13:01]:
If if I was you know, right now, I’m 52 years old. If if I had no juniors at all and I brought a couple of 22 year olds into the business, there would be zero shot that I’d be able to sell them the company. But we’ve got folks in their twenties and their thirties and their forties, and it’s a full spectrum of folks. And by doing this gradually, it’s gonna take at least 10 to buy me out, at least. And if they can each get a small piece of this and we don’t have to involve private equity, we don’t have to involve a corporation who’s gonna come in and say, we wanna see your balance sheet and your profit, your p and l every 4 minutes. You know, to be harassed by a private equity partner to me is not worth it. I mean, to get top dollar in the business is very simple. I could sell to a private equity firm.

Eric Brotman [00:13:49]:
I’d make a fortune, and all of our minor partners would get pummeled. They really would because they’d either have to work for somebody they don’t like or respect, or they’d have to sell their shares long before they ripen, and they won’t have they won’t have a life changing moment.

Rob Brown [00:14:02]:
Right.

Eric Brotman [00:14:03]:
So what I am doing in every conceivable way is trying to take care of everyone here whose skin is in the game. And if I do that and it doesn’t require private equity, everyone here will will not only benefit, but it will feather their nest for a generation. I like that.

Rob Brown [00:14:21]:
That’s yeah. That’s awesome. Because, I think too many people, because of what’s going on in the world today, think that the only answer is private equity. And there are more more there’s more than one reason for that, but you pointed out a really good one is starting that succession plan too late forces, forces your hand and makes that internal succession, the Yeah.

Eric Brotman [00:14:54]:
More difficult to I read on, one of Michael Kitz’s post recently said that I believe 35% of all financial advisers in the United States plan to retire within 10 years. 35%. And there are not enough young people to come in and take those roles. So there is already a shortage of financial advisers in this country. There’s an even bigger shortage of good ones, and that’s growing. That is a problem that’s growing. It’s not like we have it’s not like we’re lawyers where everybody and their brother-in-law goes to law school because they’re they’re not employable at 22. You know, there’s too many lawyers in the world.

Eric Brotman [00:15:26]:
There’s too many lots of things in the world. There are not enough financial advisers in the world, partly because we don’t have a career track, but that’s a whole another show for a whole different day. But but what I will say is the opportunity is so so amazing to to collaborate with other firms in ways that can not only enhance your client experiences and your employee experiences, but also your own life so that you don’t have to die at your desk, so that you don’t have to feel like you’re working 60 and 70 and 80 hours to keep up with stuff that in often cases is routine and not even exciting to you anymore. It’s one thing if you’re spending your whole all of your time doing stuff you love. But I know too many advisers who’ve been doing this a long time who are buried in their own paperwork or their own, operational stuff. I don’t wanna do any of that. And so in order to not spend your time doing that when you’re later in your career, you’ve got to have the the building blocks along the way. You’ve got a plant long before you reap.

Eric Brotman [00:16:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Calandra [00:16:26]:
Eric, you you bring up a really good point, and I think I’d like to dig in a little bit more. Why a lot of advisers obviously, are not thinking about the downriver, planning. Like you said, 35% gonna retire in the next 10 years. Why do you think then the adviser community doesn’t choose to collaborate? Why are we not thinking the way so many other business owners that you’ve worked with, I’ve worked with over the years? Why are we so myopic in this, and and how do we fix that?

Eric Brotman [00:17:04]:
Well, the advisers who were looking to retire the next 10 years started in the business in the seventies eighties. Maybe into the nineties, but mostly the seventies eighties. And if you remember what this business was like at that point in time, it was very much eat what you kill. It was very transactional and commission based. It was very sales quota based. And the role model we had out there was Michael Douglas as Gordon Gekko. I, you know, I I think the the world has changed enough. I mean, financial advising almost didn’t exist.

Eric Brotman [00:17:32]:
You were a stockbroker or you were an insurance salesman or you were a banker. And so I think there’s still an entire generation, close to half of the financial advisor in this country who who started in this business before it was really the financial planning industry, before the CFP was really a thing that anyone knew about. And those are folks who didn’t plan for this because it was all about me, me, me. It’s all about, can I beat the the guy or gal in the next cube? And if that’s the mindset, that’s that’s like having chum in the water and having the shark circle. It’s not like that anymore. There’s blue ocean. We don’t have to fight with each other. There’s no way if imagine imagine the sheer population in this country.

Eric Brotman [00:18:16]:
Imagine if 1% of the population decided in the next year they wanted financial planning and they all called you, Phil. You’ve got a problem you cannot handle. It sounds awesome until you realize that there’s nothing you could do with it. Like, the abundance is so great that there is absolutely no way you could handle all of it. None of us could.

Phil Calandra [00:18:36]:
Yeah. That’s right. Yep.

Rob Brown [00:18:40]:
That’s a that’s a great point. And, you know, when I was listening to Phil’s question and thinking about why that myopic feeling, I think I think some of it does come from, as you suggested, Eric, that ego that was derived by being the top producer. You know? You you were just you were just trying to climb higher and higher on in the ranks and do more and more business, and it was all about you and you were competing against the, you know, other guys in their office or the other Mhmm. People in your firm. And then the worst case scenario They were all guys. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Brotman [00:19:21]:
And And we’re still something like 83% male, but it was, like, 99% at that point.

Rob Brown [00:19:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s maybe even difficult for some of the younger advisers who may be listening to this to understand that there, was a day where there wasn’t a preference to do fee based business and to do real financial planning.

Eric Brotman [00:19:48]:
Oh, do you remember what the front load was on mutual funds when they came out?

Rob Brown [00:19:52]:
Yeah. 8 a

Eric Brotman [00:19:52]:
half, 9%. Yeah. Yeah. 8 a half, 9%. So you were literally you were literally making a massive commission for anything you did, anything. And so you didn’t wanna share that. And you win sales awards and get sent on on fancy trips, and you were like the star in your office. And you put sales awards on your office wall.

Eric Brotman [00:20:13]:
If I’m a client and I walk into somebody’s office looking for objective advice and I see that they’re the number one salesperson at anything, I’m ready to run.

Phil Calandra [00:20:22]:
But that still exists today. Right, Eric? I mean, in the insurance space, the annuity space, that model still is is propped up, and I think that’s, if I’ll I’ll add a little bit to what you’re saying, I think. But there’s a very big difference between financial planning and financial advisory. Financial advisors to me are a position of sales that’s generated through Wall Street banks or insurance companies. Planning is the exact opposite of that. And to your point, you know, if everybody decided that they wanted a financial plan instead of financial products, which is certainly what they don’t want

Eric Brotman [00:21:02]:
Correct.

Phil Calandra [00:21:02]:
You wouldn’t have a you would need 20 more advisers just to even keep up yourself, my office included.

Eric Brotman [00:21:09]:
Oh, yeah. No question.

Phil Calandra [00:21:10]:
Good good perspective.

Eric Brotman [00:21:12]:
Well, well, think about our industry. If you wanna be an accountant, a tax accountant, you’re gonna go get an undergraduate degree, and you’re gonna go sit for your CPA, and you’re gonna be credentialed to do a certain work, and you’re gonna start in a firm. If you wanna go to law school, you’re gonna get your undergraduate degree. You’re gonna go to law school. You’re gonna pass the bar. You’re gonna have this thing. You’re a financial adviser the day you take a job. You know, somebody who goes to work for xyzmutualcompany.

Eric Brotman [00:21:38]:
I’m not gonna mention any names. No need to bash. But whether it’s an insurance company or a bank or a trust company or any of these places, if if you’re a brand new hire and your card says financial adviser, you you don’t know anything about financial advice necessarily at that moment. All you know is you took a job. Yeah. But it takes no credentialing. Now to earn a CFP and to earn various types of designations does, but you can call yourself a financial adviser on your 1st day at work. That’s scary as heck for the community.

Rob Brown [00:22:10]:
Good point. Good point. It it really it really can be, and that’s where I think not enough of the industry does a good job of making sure they’re bringing the right people into those positions. Because I think you can there isn’t just one way to get somebody started. And if you’re gonna bring them in and hire them and hire them as a financial adviser, they’re gonna a financial adviser out of the gate. I think you can make that work, but you’ve gotta bring the right people in with the right ethics. And then you have to surround them with a team of people that they can go to and get that device or or or get advice, not device, advice, so that it can be, dispelled in a way that really makes sense for the client. Because ultimately, know, that’s what the client’s about.

Rob Brown [00:22:59]:
And even when we were talking about those 8 a half, 9% front end loaded mutual funds, it wasn’t as though we were looking to to stick people with, like, the worst funds at the highest prices. We were representing some of the best money managers in the world, and that load, was that was just the price to pay, and you’re instead of paying your fee every year, you were kind of amortizing that 8%, over a lot of years in the under the understanding that you were gonna hang on to that fund for 10 and 20 and 30 years. So so it wasn’t, it wasn’t a scam, but it was a definitely a very different way to get paid that could be taken, advantage of by the wrong person.

Eric Brotman [00:23:48]:
Oh, I I’m I’m not suggesting that the business model was a scam. I’m suggesting that a lot of times people would then either change advisors or change funds or change something, and they’d have to pay it all over again.

Rob Brown [00:23:58]:
Yeah.

Eric Brotman [00:23:58]:
So, you know, like anything else, all financial products are tools. Tools in and of themselves are neither good nor bad under most circumstances. It’s just the right tool or the wrong tool for the job. And you really need the right, the right professional in any job to know which tools to use for which jobs. You know, if you’re trying to hang a a mirror or build a ship in a bottle, you don’t wanna do it with a jackhammer. The wrong tool for the job.

Rob Brown [00:24:24]:
Yeah. That’s absolutely right.

Phil Calandra [00:24:25]:
Yeah.

Rob Brown [00:24:26]:
So I think, Eric, you’ve done a great job of kind of helping us understand a little bit about your model and your philosophy, for building a team, for collaborating, for succession planning. But I I wanna change gears because you just released the second edition of your book. Yep. And please hold it up by pressing down the copy shameless plug. Before the yeah. Shameless plug for yeah. Don’t retire, graduate.

Eric Brotman [00:24:52]:
Correct.

Rob Brown [00:24:52]:
Tell us about that. And and maybe even relate that to the fact that you spoke about being, you know, having this, media business that is not just books, but podcasts and

Eric Brotman [00:25:03]:
Yeah.

Rob Brown [00:25:03]:
And other things. Why that’s important, and and what inspired you to do it?

Eric Brotman [00:25:08]:
I I think the there’s a great lack of personal financial literacy and financial education in the world. It’s not in schools in most places, and where it is in schools is not great. And there’s lots of reasons for that. It’s but young people don’t learn these things. And if they learn finance at all or personal finance from watching their parents they’re probably learning what not to do in almost every household. So unfortunately there’s not a lot of tools that are objective in nature that can help teach you how to do a financial plan for yourself. So the book was written for two reasons. 1, because it does create a road map to financial independence and not with some magical formula, but with all the steps that people need to take in order to become financially independent, whether they’re 38 or 88 when they get there is largely up to inputs and and some of its luck, but most of its behavior.

Eric Brotman [00:26:02]:
But there’s if there is a path to it, and and it’s not an instant fix. It’s not a magic pill. But the second reason was to redefine retirement because I think we’re doing ourselves a disservice by working our entire adult lives or have our adult lives with this idea that retirement is the end game Because if if retirement is truly what it’s defined to be, it’s a disappearing act. It’s a retreat. It’s a surrender. It’s it’s the end. To me, when you think about a graduation, yes, you think about the end of a program. My daughter is graduating from 8th grade soon.

Eric Brotman [00:26:38]:
That is a major thing at our house at the moment. It is a graduation, but it’s also a stepping stone to the next thing, high school. And once you graduate from high school, potentially, there’s college or grad school or other things, and you graduate from them. And that means, yes, you’ve completed a program, but you’re also going on to something new and exciting. What are you going on to when you retire in the traditional sense? Waiting to die, sitting around playing shuffleboard and and watching daytime TV until you until everything hurts and you stop getting out of bed? Like, it’s misery. So I think the idea of retirement in the traditional sense should be thrown out. It’s antiquated. It was set up 100 of years ago as a way to get extreme senior citizens out of the workplace.

Eric Brotman [00:27:20]:
And by extreme, I mean people who are 60, which doesn’t feel extreme at all anymore, thankfully. But and and there’s so much history around retirement, where it came from. There was retirement discussions in Germany in the 1800 and in the United States in the early 1900. Fascinating history around it, but all of it all of it was related to this idea that you’d you’d someday not be worthwhile. And if you look at history before that, look at look at, ancient times. Who had the biggest tent? Who did you go to when you had the biggest problems? You went to the elders of the community. The reason you went to the elders is because they had a better chance of having seen it before. So for the really big stuff, you went to the people who’d seen a lot of stuff.

Eric Brotman [00:28:06]:
And in this country, we put people out to pasture like they’re no longer useful. And so to me, retirement is not the absence of work. Retirement is the absence of needing to work. If you’re financially independent, you work if you feel like it, when you feel like it, doing what you feel like. To me, that’s already retired even if you’re still very much engaged. Because I I look at LinkedIn profiles. It’s a perfect example. If you look at LinkedIn profiles and you’re scrolling through folks, and who do I wanna meet? Who do I wanna talk to? This person’s an architect, and this person’s an engineer, and this person’s a financial adviser, and this one just says retired.

Eric Brotman [00:28:41]:
It might as well say deceased. Nobody’s gonna click that and go, and there’s somebody I really gotta get to know. That person’s a whole lot of fun. And, man, can they introduce me to people? Wow. This is gonna be great. Don’t put retired. Put anything else. Put volunteer at the food bank.

Eric Brotman [00:28:57]:
Put anything else but retired because retired is the same as being gone. And so, you know, I think retirement is is not only absence of needing to work. I think there’s so much more to it qualitatively, and behavioral finance speaks to this, but the quantitative stuff is easy. It’s math. I know I just said some things that your audience gets because the financial advisers know math. The public doesn’t necessarily know the math. They’re a little afraid or daunted by it sometimes. But the math is not hard.

Eric Brotman [00:29:25]:
You can find somebody or a computer that can do the math. What’s hard is asking someone our age, what do you wanna be when you grow up? And having them actually think about, holy cow. I haven’t been asked that since I was 7. So that’s why I wrote the book. I want people to reach financial independence, to know what they’re doing, whether they do it themselves, where they hire someone to do it, and to have a different vision for what the last 20 or 30 years of their lives could be and and not to have it be the end way prematurely just because you think there’s a gold watch and a party. Like, you you don’t just give your 2 weeks notice and then figure out what you wanna do. It takes years to figure out what you might wanna do in the next chapter of life. It’s not like you graduate from college and then say, gosh.

Eric Brotman [00:30:11]:
I I really should think about maybe a career. You’re looking for work your junior year. You’re doing internships your freshman year. You’re figuring out what you wanna do long before the day the diploma comes. Why not do the same thing with retirement? Why not figure out what you’re gonna if you decide what I wanna do is volunteer because I really wanna be involved in animal welfare or in or in food deserts or in whatever it is that you’re passionate about. It makes no difference what it is. But you don’t just show up on the 1st day and say, hey. I’m ready.

Eric Brotman [00:30:41]:
What do I do? You build your network. You build you you meet people. You serve on a committee. You join a board. You you get engaged. You you learn how you can best help so that when it’s time to do that, you’re as effective in your volunteer work or in your next career, whatever that looks like, as you were in your primary. So that’s why I wrote the book.

Phil Calandra [00:31:00]:
Yeah. So I have a question, Eric. What is different in the second edition from the first edition?

Eric Brotman [00:31:08]:
Because Absolutely nothing. A lot of people cover on it, no. Mostly. Okay. Well, a

Phil Calandra [00:31:12]:
a lot of people write books, and I and, I I’m just curious. You had to have had some updated figures or feelings or behavioral help. So what’s different?

Eric Brotman [00:31:22]:
Several things. When I wrote the first book, it came out before COVID with a thing. And so much changed in a short period of time. And what I realized was that the book, while it was meant to be both timely and timeless, was entirely too timely. And so I rewrote it so that I never have to rewrite it again. Because, what I realized was certain things were likely to be temporary either because of legislation or because of limits or because of rules. And I didn’t wanna have to do this every year to keep it up to date. It’s actually Yeah.

Eric Brotman [00:31:53]:
Harder to edit than it is to write. So, so I I think there’s there’s, there are a lot of reasons for it. One was that it was pre COVID, and so much has changed in the world in the last 4 years. One was because when COVID hit, I couldn’t do a speaking tour or a book tour, everything shut down. So the book came out at the absolute worst time where there was no publicity around it. I mean, heck, I wasn’t even I I I wasn’t really even able to to use the Podverse to to help me. It was not quite as profound as it is today. So, for anyone who read the first one, I don’t think you need to read the second one.

Eric Brotman [00:32:29]:
There’s there’s some updates, but I think a lot of people haven’t read it, and I’m hoping to be able to use this as a springboard for that.

Rob Brown [00:32:37]:
Yeah. I love that. I I love the actually, I also like the the the frankness that you have and telling the people who read the, that, you know, they’re they’re just the the world is full of lots of different kinds of people, but my favorite kinds of people are folks like you who are really happy and genuine about what you do and really wanting to help people, whether it’s the advisers who join your team or the advisers you collaborate with or those who you would rather see graduate and not Yeah. Retire. That’s a Yeah.

Eric Brotman [00:33:12]:
No. This is this is not a sequel. There was no cliffhanger at the end of version 1. This isn’t, you know, like, like like, the the sequel. It’s really it’s I think it’s better than the first edition because I don’t think it’s gonna require nearly as much, as much thought around as this still exist. You know, if we have some radical changes to to to tax law and other things, maybe, but I’m hopeful that this will last for half a decade or more and still be useful and timely.

Rob Brown [00:33:40]:
Yeah. Well, that’s that’s great.

Phil Calandra [00:33:41]:
I think that’s right. It will.

Eric Brotman [00:33:43]:
I hope so. So I mean, a lot of this is qualitative. A lot of it’s not math. A lot of this doesn’t change just because of, you know, your IRA limit. I mean, that that to me is not you can look those up. It’s more the philosophy, I think, that matters and the behavior and the good habits that you create that matter much more than, know, what is the federal limit for annual gift exclusions. You know? We need to know that as advisers. Clients don’t need to know that.

Eric Brotman [00:34:09]:
They they need to know that it exists and who to ask or where to find it online. But the current numbers I, you know, I did my CFP in 1998. Do you think there’s anything on that exam that is functionally useful to me now? Very much.

Phil Calandra [00:34:24]:
I assure you there’s not.

Eric Brotman [00:34:25]:
No. Very little. So, you you know, so so I realized that the credentialing happened, and that’s why there’s continuing education and there’s other things. But it’s more important to know where to find the answer than it is to recall the answer off the top of your head.

Rob Brown [00:34:41]:
That’s great. And so I would encourage folks, and we’ll be sure to put it into the show notes how to get Please. A copy of Don’t Retire Graduate, the 2nd edition.

Eric Brotman [00:34:53]:
2nd edition, not a sequel.

Rob Brown [00:34:56]:
Okay. Well, I think it’s about time to land the plane, Eric. It’s been a great conversation. I could I could, I know that I could ask you dozens of more questions, but, I think I think we’re time is of the essence at this point. But before we close it out, I’d just like to give you an opportunity to do 2 things. 1, is there a piece of advice that you’d like to give the audience? And as you know, they’re mostly financial advisers who have who are having success in their careers and are really thinking about what you thought about the purpose behind what they do. Any, like, last piece of advice there. And then also, if somebody wants to meet you, get to know you, what’s the best way to do that besides picking up a copy of your book?

Eric Brotman [00:35:42]:
I appreciate that. The piece of advice I would have is to is to figure out how, how you want your team and your firm to develop. It’s fine to have a practice and to have a lifestyle practice if that’s what you want. But if you’re looking to build infrastructure and you’re looking to build a team, there’s really only 3 ways I know of to do it. 1 is to build it from from scratch and decide you’re gonna create it yourself. 1 is to buy 1. You can always buy a firm and and program yourself into it. And the third is to join 1.

Eric Brotman [00:36:12]:
Either buy it, build it, or join it. And if you’re going to go that route and you choose to join it or you choose to buy it, understanding the the culture implications and the and some of the nuance behind that it’s not just the numbers it’s not just the economy of scale it’s the people and it’s the systems, and it’s the philosophy, and it’s the culture, and there’s a lot more to it. We’ve successfully added multiple advisors to our firm from other firms, one of whom was in her 40s and is an integral part of our team now. In fact, she’s going to be my successor, which I’m super excited about. The other is now in her sixties, and we had a 5 year period to help, integrate those clients and to retire her and and successfully did that. So for advisors looking to do that, collaborate with folks in your industry, but also in your community. I’m happy to help consult on that. So the second part of your question is, you know, how to reach me.

Eric Brotman [00:37:10]:
If you go to brotmanconsultinggroup.com, you’ll find all of the services we provide for advisers. We do consulting across the country for a number of advisory firms, which we love to do. You can check out the book at brotmanmedia.com. And if you just wanna know more about our firm, it’s bfgfk.com, which stands for BFG Financial Advisory.

Rob Brown [00:37:31]:
Awesome. Well, Eric, I can tell you’ve been on a podcast before. You know how to bring it home. So I really appreciate your, your being on the purpose focused adviser with us, because I can see the purpose, and how you’ve, really brought things together, and, it really, really stands out. So, Phil, I don’t know if you have any last thoughts or questions before we before we sign off.

Phil Calandra [00:37:57]:
No. Like you, I think we could probably continue us on for another day or so. But, Eric, it’s a pleasure to meet you. If there’s anything I can do for you, please reach out. But I think that people, people that are listening to this podcast are gonna get a lot of great, wisdom, experience, and information from, what you shared with us. So it was a pleasure.

Eric Brotman [00:38:17]:
No. Thank you. It’s been great being, being with you guys, and and I wish you great success in your careers and with the podcast. And if you ever decide you wanna have me back, we’ll talk. Yeah. Sounds great.

Rob Brown [00:38:28]:
Sounds like a good opportunity. So with that, as always, we wanna tell our audience, 2 things. 1, we’ll see you next week. And number 2, as always, we are rooting for your success. Take care, everybody.

Voiceover [00:38:46]:
Thanks for joining us for this episode of the purpose focused advisor. If you wanna learn more, head over to our website, truestfancoaching.com. There, you’ll learn all about becoming a purpose focused adviser. You’ll also find today’s show notes and links to the other gifts and resources we talked about during the episode. Again, thanks for listening, and remember, we’re rooting for your success.