The Tipped Economy: Bringing Service Industry Employees into the Personal Finance Conversation with Barbara Sloan

[00:00:00] Eric Brotman: Welcome to Don’t Retire, graduate, the podcast that asks you what you want to be when you grow up so you can graduate into retirement with purpose and passion. I’m your host in valedictorian, Eric Brotman, and boy do we have a treat for you today. Barbara Sloan is with us today. She’s the author of the book.
Tipped the life-changing guide to Financial Freedom for waitresses, bartenders, strippers, and all other service industry professionals. She was a homeless teen who danced for dollars and definitely did not graduate from college. She’s a personal finance expert today and a money coach having spent two decades working in every imaginable position in the service industry all over the country.
In addition to owning and running a badass women owned construction company in the heart of m. She helps tipped workers achieve financial freedom like she did. She’s passionate about all the amazing aspects of tipped work, but also about all the terrible aspects of tipped work. She lives in New York City with her wife of 10 years, [00:01:00] and together they are a couple of adorable money nerds who point out every dog they see.
Barbara, I can think of no better way to introduce you than that. Welcome to Don’t Retire, graduate.
[00:01:09] Barbara Sloan: Eric, that was so great. Thank you so much. I’m so happy to hear I,
[00:01:13] Eric Brotman: well, I, I have to tell you, um, and I am, I am so excited to have a copy of your book here and to have read and digested it and enjoyed it. And we’re gonna talk a lot about it.
But I’d like to begin, if we can, with your background and your story because it’s, it’s impactful and it’s, it’s kind of an against all odds story to a great degree. And so if you’d share with us your background, then we can get into, into the tips that you have for other folks who might be in a similar position.
[00:01:41] Barbara Sloan: Yeah. So I grew up, um, in a little suburb outside of Detroit, Michigan. I, you know, I wouldn’t say that I had the hardest upbringing, but I wouldn’t say it was easy. When I was 12, um, my mom left our home and I was [00:02:00] responsible for myself and, um, my father who was working nights and whose substance use was increasing.
This led me to move out when I was 15. . Um, I was homeless for, uh, a period of time, which led me to being kicked out of my high school for being homeless. And led me to a string of a bunch of different random jobs. And, um, yeah, the, so in, I’d say the other pivotal point in my early story was at 19 my dad had passed.
And when he passed away, the house that I grew up in was sold and against my wishes, and I remember feeling like I didn’t get a chance to really honor him. And I ended up purchasing the house that I grew up in for twice the price that it was sold for a few months prior. Maxing out, maxing out 10 credit cards to renovate and restore the house that I grew up in, and just put myself in [00:03:00] a really terrible financial situation at the age 20.
[00:03:04] Eric Brotman: Wow. And today we’re fast forwarding, but today you’re in the construction business in the, the biggest dog eat dog, uh, construction area there is Manhattan, New York. Mm-hmm. . Um, and you’re, you’re an author and a speaker and a coach and a money guru from really bootstrapping from, from middle school. I mean, this is truly, it’s truly amazing, and I was very inspired by you the day we met, and I, I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and the book itself is, I hope everyone will pick it up because it is, it is funny, it is poignant.
It’s full of good advice and I’m gonna pick on some of it. I’m even gonna challenge some of it today cuz there’s no free lunch. Okay. There’s, there’s never a free lunch on this show. Um, I, I will say one thing First is for anyone who contemplating the book, the book is not for, for Children. It is [00:04:00] written as, uh, as an adult for adults.
There’s some language we don’t use on our show in the book. I actually loved every bit of it, uh, but just wanted to throw out that caveat for anybody who’s maybe sensitive to that. But, um, one of the things you talk about in the book, which is one of the very first things that we teach people on the path to financial independence, I say, you must pay yourself first.
You must make the first bill that you pay every month to yourself, to your savings, to your debt reduction, to your investments. Now you of course, put a spin on it. And your chapter’s called Pay Your Sexy Self First. But I, but I think, I, I think that is such an important concept. Can, can you tell us what that means to you and why you think that is such a, an important component?
Because I, I know I agree with you, but I’m curious what your take is on. Yeah.
[00:04:47] Barbara Sloan: Yeah. I think all of us in the personal finance space, we’re all spinning seven different personal finance topics into, you know, fresh takes. And my book is no different in that it’s taking [00:05:00] traditional financial pillars and it’s putting a fresh spin on them.
And it’s made in large part for people who work in the service industry or on tips or with a fluctuating income. And so, The pay yourself first chapter is super important. My spin on it is four people in the industry. Um, , I say Pay your sexy self first because two-thirds of the industry is women and there’s a lot of overlap between the service industry and sex work industry.
And so, yeah, I just wanted to make sure it felt fresh and approachable and not like that stodgy, old advice, but it, but it’s, it’s great advice.
[00:05:39] Eric Brotman: Oh, oh, I think so too. And I, I think of myself as both stodgy and old, which is why it resonates for me. It just rolls right off my tongues. Stodgy. Old advice. Thank you for.
that hurt my feelings. So, I’m sorry. So the, so folks, folks working for tips have a whole slew of unique circumstances financially to deal with. Uh, you [00:06:00] mentioned already fluctuating income, you know, a good night, a bad night, a good week, a bad week, a good month, a bad month. Um, also, I presume there’s significant turnover where their job changes much more frequently in, in that space than maybe if it’s a, a salary position somewhere.
and taxes are different and, uh, and cash flow. So talk about, I, I know this is your background. Talk about what some of the challenges are specific to the tipped economy and, and those workers in it.
[00:06:28] Barbara Sloan: Yeah, I mean, so I’ll, I’ll speak to the fact that when I first discovered personal finance, I remember. Deep diving knit and realizing that I kept hearing the same jargon and advice over and over again, which was to max out your 401k or make sure you get the match or budget based off of your income, or, you know, talk to your HR representative about your benefits.
And it’s just, there’s nothing in this entire industry that speaks to [00:07:00] people in the service industry, and I felt very, very excluded from it. Mm-hmm. and so, The first thing was sort of my aha moment came in 2013. Um, I moved to New York City with my wife, $700 in our pocket. I got two jobs. The first job was working at Coyote Ugly, which is a bar, um, if people don’t know the movie or the reference.
And then I started working at Wall Street during the day for an unregulated firm. It was part trading floor and part independent sales organization selling us loan products. And it was a huge education for. on the markets, on financial services, on, on, on all of predatory lending. Um, and so I got to see the really, really ugly side of that.
I lasted about six months in that industry. and I was like, oh man, this is so toxic. I need to go back to bars in construction full-time because
[00:07:49] Eric Brotman: I can’t handle, yeah, bar bars are much less toxic than that. Yeah.
[00:07:52] Barbara Sloan: Yeah, they’re, it’s true. Believe you, . And so I ended up getting a job at a construction company, the construction [00:08:00] company that I now own.
And I remember the first thing I was tasked with was setting up an HR department in the accounting and finance. I had never had HR before, so I didn’t know what HR did. I had no idea what a 401K was. I had maybe had health insurance once. I had no idea how to think about paid time off, paid time off policy, FSA benefits, pretext benefits, like I had no idea what any of these things were.
And at the same time, we were working for these really high net worth clients and I was getting to have conversations with them about their budgets and. How they thought about their money when it seemed like they had endless resources. And so my aha moment was in that moment where I was like, oh, it’s these systems and benefits and this mindset and framework that allows people to build wealth and the people in my industry don’t have it.
And that’s when I was like, I wanna, I wanna at least be a voice in changing that.
[00:08:54] Eric Brotman: Well, I how, how in the last 10? Did you go from taking a [00:09:00] job in HR, in a construction company where you knew nothing about HR to owning the company? What, what is that? How does that happen? I mean, that’s in and of it’s, that reminds me of Michael J.
Fox, the secret of my success from years ago. What is, what is that trajectory? How did that
[00:09:15] Barbara Sloan: happen? I like to say everything I needed to know about running a multimillion dollar business. I learned in the service industry, people often. Feel like they don’t have skills in this industry, or they allow their guests to chip away at their confidence with questions like, oh, what’s your real job?
Or What are you doing after this? Mm-hmm. , are you in school? But these are highly skilled individuals. These are people who are getting to, you know, see the beginning, middle, and end of a transaction. They’re there problem solving. They’re there with rocking out on time management. They are. Running small businesses, they’re constantly doing back of the envelope math.
They’re trying to figure out and maximize their resources during their shifts. So it’s a lot of skills that you gain. And [00:10:00] when I’m, when I was put in the business world with all of those skills, I really excelled. Um, I was good at selling projects because I was good at selling in. The service industry, I was good at managing because I was good at managing my resources.
When I worked in the service industry, I was good at quality control and quality assurance because that’s what I was constantly looking for for my guests in the service industry. So it all translated, and you know, for me, I think I was lucky to have some opportunities come my way. That came in the form of tragedy.
Unfortunately, the founder of our company passed away at the end of 2015. His wife stepped in, I stepped up. She and I are now business partners and we have been building that company ever since.
[00:10:45] Eric Brotman: That is, that’s amazing. I mean, there’s so many, there’s so many nuances to that. We talk with business owners all the time about making sure that there are buy-sell agreements and all these fancy legal things that happen usually to make sure [00:11:00] that their spouse, who’s rarely in the industry, ever has to take anyth, do anything with the industry, and yet you’re in this situation.
w was, was she involved in the company before he passed or she literally had to step in and and learn it from
[00:11:13] Barbara Sloan: go? No, she wasn’t involved in the company at that point. Um, but she had went to, she had back a background in engineering and interior design, and I had obviously 20 years of construction experience starting from when I renovated the house I grew up in, um, across various styles of, of construction.
And so I always like to say that I worked. Construction in the day and service industry in the evening, or dirt in the day and dirty in the evening. Um, but yeah, it was, it’s been a, it’s been a wild ride.
[00:11:43] Eric Brotman: So I I, it’s time for me to challenge you. On something in your book and the, the chapter’s called from Happy Hours to All Hours where the section is.
And I’m, I’m going to pull out this section because, um, I, I, I, I, I earmarked [00:12:00] it the day I got to it. Um, There are three types of brokerages listed here. Three types of places where folks can get financial advice and you list full service brokerages, discount brokerages, and then investment apps or online advisors, robo-advisors.
Uh, I think there’s some groups missing from this list, including now I feel excluded because we’re not in any of those three categories. So, um, where do, because this is mostly about the investment. And I understand that, but where do you put financial coaches, financial therapists, certified financial planners, folks who are looking at more than just the investment piece?
Where do you put them into this landscape? .
[00:12:46] Barbara Sloan: Yeah. That’s such a, that’s such a great question. For me, my investing chapter was one of my favorite chapters to write because I used the bar as an analogy for every aspect of investing, and it was really important to me to make sure that it [00:13:00] was digestible because as you know, financial services is heavy on the jargon.
It’s heavy on confusing, and, and we, we as an industry just don’t do. a good job at pulling up and educating underserved communities. Mm-hmm. . And so for me it was most important that it was digestible. Mm-hmm. and relatable. Mm-hmm. . Um, the other thing I do in this book is that I want people to feel empowered and I got.
To financial independence on the heels of my service industry experience through a very D I Y approach. And I think that you have to have this level of understanding in order to protect yourself. I think financial coaches, financial advisors, financial therapists, Those people are great to guide you when you have a solid understanding.
They’re there to further your education. They’re there to give you motivation. They’re there as a sounding board. They are wonderful, wonderful resources. But my, the most important thing I [00:14:00] wanted to teach people is that you can’t farm out this thinking. You can’t farm out this level of work. You have to be involved, and no one’s gonna care about your money or your security or your retirement as much as you.
[00:14:13] Eric Brotman: All right, well, first of all, you’re forgiven. Um, second of all, second of all, um, I, I think financial advisors and folks like that are in fact accountability partners. Much like a trainer in the gym, much like a trainer in the gym. You know how to do sit ups. You might even, but, but if you don’t have a fitness mindset, you’re not gonna get good results, whether you have a trainer or not.
So I, I, like I said, you’re forgiven. Um, I do think there’s, um, I do think there’s a, a difference between, um, an, an investment advisor and a, uh, a financial planner or a certified financial planner in that, um, investment advisors often spend more time thinking about the jargon, the alphas, betas, and standard deviations that none of us actually want to talk about.
Instead of some of the life goals and some of the planning and some of the mindsets and [00:15:00] certainly the financial literacy piece, but you used some language that was really powerful a moment ago, and you said that you need to have this basic knowledge to protect yourself. Um, our last show we had a, a guest who did, who does divorce planning, and one of the things specifically forensic divorce planning, one of the things she talked about was, um, she talked about the fact that often there’s one spouse in a partnership or marriage or what have you, who really doesn’t know where things are or how things are working, and it, and a lot of times they get victimized by that.
And there’s, there’s shenanigans. We, we called them. I, I think financial literacy has to be a baseline and it’s not taught in schools. Where did you learn it? I mean, you, you learned it on the job, clearly. You learned it from, from figuring out what was coming in, what was going out, and you did it yourself.
But where do you suggest particularly young people get some basic financial literacy? Because it’s not in schools and parents can’t teach what they don’t understand. So where do you get the base, the. For
[00:15:59] Barbara Sloan: me, [00:16:00] when I went to that alternative school, um, for my high school, I graduated and realized that I had a lot of gaps in my knowledge.
And so when I realized that I couldn’t afford college in the traditional sense, I realized that anything that happened to me after that point was up to me. And that included educating myself. And so I made a list of a hundred books that I was gonna. Wow. And started, yeah, and started down the list of reading.
Some were books I was supposed to have read in school. Some were memoirs, some were business schools. Some were self-help books. Um, but that journey really taught me that I needed a large sample size of information in order to educate myself and in order to weed out things that maybe weren’t true. It gave me.
You know, the ability to kind of gut check what, what was, what was true and what wasn’t. You also learned that in the service industry, you know, you may not have traditional knowledge, but you can call, you can sense BS coming when you ha when you have that experience. So I already had that background of, of educating myself.
And then in 2016, we all [00:17:00] know what was happening with. Political climate, but I just couldn’t stomach news or media or, or doom scrolling. Mm-hmm. , I couldn’t stomach any of it. Mm-hmm. , I turned mm-hmm. everything off and all I listened to were the sweet, soothing sounds of personal finance cuz I was like, I can use this time to better my own financial life and, you know, potentially better.
the people’s lives around me. And so that was the beginning of my rabbit hole, and I did mm-hmm. , I, I, I’m probably at 10,000 hours now, but I’m continuing, you know, you have to continue to, to self-educate and my book is, it’s a 1 0 1. And so that’s the most important thing about it is that it, it promotes financial literacy.
I have a chapter at the end called Last Call and it’s, it’s, it’s all about what you can do next. Mm-hmm. , how you can continue that level of how you can continue your own education.
[00:17:48] Eric Brotman: I, I, I think this is a 1 0 1. I think it’s a great, great first step. Um, and I, you know, I think at some point, and I’m, I’m, I’m looking for it now, all, but I believe at some point [00:18:00] you used the B word.
In your book, which is budget. Um, I, I am anti budget and the reason I’m anti budget isn’t because it’s not a useful tool. It’s because it’s almost impossible to follow as a, as a, an individual, particularly, particularly if your income is not always the same. Um, I think companies have to have budgets.
Departments have to have budgets. It makes sense. Families aren’t gonna stick to a budget of how much are you spending on medical care or dining out or, um, or pets or kids or whatever it is. So, so I try to, to, to do the pay yourself first thing, the pay your sexy self. First thing that you did is a way to say, if you can live on less than a hundred percent of what you make, you will be building wealth.
Whether you’re building it strategically, whether you’re building it tactically, whether you’re building it successfully or not. There are lots of variables. But first you have to make more than you. can, can I push
[00:18:57] Barbara Sloan: back on, can I push back on that a little bit? [00:19:00] Ok.
[00:19:00] Eric Brotman: Yes.
[00:19:02] Barbara Sloan: I, I’m, so, I love this conversation because I think budgeting gets such a bad wrap and for lots of good reasons, but when we break down what a budget is, it’s really just an estimate of what’s coming in and an estimate of what’s going out.
And you have to know that. You have to know that even if it’s only for a couple of months, even. Just so that you can get a sense of trends. You talked about corporations. My wife does fp and a. She took her company public a couple years ago. I talked to her about what companies do. It’s the same thing for people in the service industry who are working on a fluctuating income.
You have to analyze trends. , make educated guesses and go back and see how those guesses turned out. You have to do that. I, I know some people in our space call it the anti budget or they’ll call it a spending plan. I didn’t mess around with any of that because my industry, mm-hmm. , they’re already suspicious, they’re already skeptical of everything.
Call it what it is. It’s a budget. Whether it’s [00:20:00] just an estimate, whether it’s, you know, just an idea. Whatever it is, it’s a budget. And so , even if it’s just an idea of what’s coming in, what’s going out, and you’re not into the nitty. It’s still a budget. Um, and, but budget culture is when we get into what’s problematic and that’s when it comes into like the over tracking, which can cause all sorts of disordered behavior or mm-hmm deprivation or other things super problematic when you get way, way deep into budget culture, and I’m totally in agreement with that.
I’m a zero based budgeter, so I’m with you. I think after a couple months of deep diving, you get to know your trends, you get to know your numbers. You have that in the back of your mind. Certainly no one should budget for the rest of their life. I totally could not agree more.
[00:20:42] Eric Brotman: Let’s talk about debt, because there is good debt and there is bad debt, and um, not everyone knows the difference, but adverse debt, consumer debt, um, student loans in a lot of cases.
Credit cards, car payments, um, anything unsecure. [00:21:00] Is categorically not a good idea most of the time. How do you advise folks who have dug a hole for themselves to prioritize getting out of that hole while still trying to build some, some positive, uh, assets on one side and dealing with liabilities on the other?
How do you help people prioritize that? How would you approach that if you were suddenly tomorrow back in debt like you might have been when you were.
[00:21:27] Barbara Sloan: Like when I was $178,000 in debt at the age of 20 . Yeah.
[00:21:32] Eric Brotman: I mean, yeah, I’m sure. I’m sure you, I’m sure you did a great job with the house. Uh, I’m sure it was spectacular in every way.
Wow, that’s a lot of money. That was credit cards .
[00:21:43] Barbara Sloan: Um, yeah. It was, it was a combination of, of a bunch of different types of debt, but it was not good and Okay. Yeah. So the first thing I do with people, I, I have a coaching practice. I, I talk with people in debt every day. , the first thing to approach is mindset, right?
Mm-hmm. debt is a thing you hold. It’s [00:22:00] not a thing you are mm-hmm. . It’s not indicative of your character or anything about you. It’s just a thing you hold and we can hold a lot of things at once and so if you don’t have levels of hair on fire debt where it’s debt that’s in like the 20%, then I really like to talk to people about a dual approach because it’s nice to see things that are grow.
at the same time as you’re paying things down just to pay things down again and again. That’s how we develop deprivation. That’s how we get back into debt cycles. That’s how those things develop. But if you’re also growing things like your savings or you’re growing things like your investment, you’re seeing the other side, you’re getting to balance out some of that, ugh, that negative of just paying things down constantly.
When will this ever be over? I’ll ne you know, like you’re balancing it with something good. You’re balancing it with something positive. .
[00:22:52] Eric Brotman: So you talk a lot about mindset. In the book. In fact, I believe I, if I remember correctly, it was Money on Your [00:23:00] Mindset, which I think was, is that a Snoop Dogg reference?
Yeah, . Okay, so, so Snoop, do, Snoop Dogg has now been brought into the show. That’s perfect. Hopefully he’s, how many, how many
[00:23:12] Barbara Sloan: times has he been brought onto the show?
[00:23:14] Eric Brotman: Uh, none. Although last episode, it was last episode, we, we channeled Cuba Gooding Jr. So I, I guess now it’s Snoop Dogg. Why not? Um, but you talk a lot about mindset.
You talk a lot about, um, how much of this is psychology and behavioral finance has become. Fortunately it’s finally sort of an industry. It’s, it’s become a thing and there’s still plenty of jargon. . But do you think behavioral finance is something that, that, um, people can, can understand enough to deploy on their own?
They feel good about some of the reasons why we do what we do as human beings.
[00:23:49] Barbara Sloan: Yeah, I think it’s super important and, and in my coaching practice, one of the biggest things I talk about is a concept I coined called financial legitimacy. When you are somebody who [00:24:00] earns your money in singles, it’s a, it’s really hard to imagine that turning into something like a million dollar retirement.
You have to overcome a lot of mental hurdles. And so dealing with that el, those elements of financial legitimacy like. You know, pushing back on maybe some systemic things or some beliefs that you hold based on the environments that you put yourselves into. It’s really important to sort that stuff out.
[00:24:24] Eric Brotman: Mm-hmm. , so your, your coaching practice. Let’s talk a little bit about that. What kind, who, what kind of clients do you serve? What kind of work are you doing with most of ’em? I know you talked a little bit about debt and that, that folks sometimes approach you in that way. What are, what are some of the things where folks would say, oh my gosh, we, we have to barber’s the call.
We gotta do this.
[00:24:45] Barbara Sloan: Yeah. I have clients who are sex workers and strippers and graphic designers and waitresses and dominatrix, and people in the fetish and king community and bartenders. I, they, they run, they run a very [00:25:00] broad gamut. Um, and they approach me for a lot of different reasons. You know, I think for people who work on the spicier side of things, , they’re often scared to claim their income.
Mm-hmm. , they’re often scared to put money into a bank or to set up some of these financial systems for themselves, even though the income is there. Mm-hmm. , whereas people who may be earning lower middle income might have more traditional financial struggles such as, you know, budgeting and debt and learning how to pay themselves first.
And so it really, there’s a broad spectrum and with each of them, you have to dig into the mindset because. Whatever happened to us in our childhood and our adolescence, it’s playing out in our financial lives today. And so we really have to sort through those things to understand like, oh, these are the reasons that I spend, or these are the reasons that I save, or these are the reasons that I value this career over, you know, this other thing.
And so sorting out those whys is really helpful in, in getting [00:26:00] clarity in how you’re gonna move forward. .
[00:26:02] Eric Brotman: Well, I I’m certain that your coaching clients are getting, um, their cups are overflowing with wisdom because I, I can tell that you, you walk the walk, you don’t just talk the talk. And I, I respect that so much that you have been able to, to take, uh, an experience that maybe would’ve.
Um, jaded some or, or even conquered others at 12 years old for Pete’s sake. Um, and you’ve turned it into a mission and a, and a vision for yourself. And I, and I love it, and I, the book is just, it’s just really well done and I’m glad I got a chance to experience it. Um, I have to ask you because, um, because we’ve talked about some very, very different topics than we have with some of our other guests on the show, but I get to ask you now what you want to be when you grow up.
And you’ve been through a couple iterations already, so dream a little with me. What do you wanna be when you grow
[00:26:54] Barbara Sloan: up? Yeah, I mean, I’m really into this guide and advocate role [00:27:00] right now. Like I wanna be a guide for people who are, who need financial literacy, and I wanna be an advocate for the people who are underserved.
So I’m gonna go with guide and Advocate is what I wanna be when I grow up.
[00:27:12] Eric Brotman: I think you’re that. I think you’re that already. I think and, and y you know, I, I, I know you’re a grownup, but, uh, I think you’re already there. So now it’s about amplifying that and, and maybe doing some more influencing. Are you looking to, to be more of an influencer too?
[00:27:26] Barbara Sloan: I have a mission to do away with the $2 and 13 cents sub minimum wage that we federally hold in the United States. It’s a big mission. Um, but I am, I’m ready to do away with that, and that’s, that’s a big part of the advocacy work that I wanna. .
[00:27:42] Eric Brotman: I I love that you brought that up. It’s a perfect time for that because right now, um, politically there’s a, a whole lot of talk about, uh, about impacting the tipped industries, um, potentially adversely, and the IRS is suddenly putting a focus on some of these [00:28:00] cash industries and so forth.
What’s your take on all of that? Have, have, is this something you’ve been following and your, your, um, coaching clients have followed? , I mean, what, what is the impact to you, um, in your opinion on, um, on, on this new approach potentially to, to taxing tipped workers in a different way?
[00:28:18] Barbara Sloan: I mean, I’m not here to advocate on the behalf of employers for tipped work, but I definitely don’t think that it’s the employers.
Role to claim income for their employees that they don’t, that they aren’t aware of. Tipping is its own industry. It’s a huge industry, and it’s an industry that employs over 5.5 million people. It’s the second largest employment sector in the United States. And tipping is not just something that happens in the.
States, it’s global. Mm-hmm. , um, over one third of countries have a tipping culture of over 10%. And so this is not something we’re gonna do away with and forcing employers to claim income where tipping is a [00:29:00] two-part system. It is. Part, the employer, and it’s part the consumer who’s receiving a subjective service experience.
And so for the US government to state that it’s the employer’s responsibility to claim tips that they’re unaware of is just, it’s really unfair to both the employer and the employee. Um, employees are small business owners and they need to be responsible for claiming their own income because there’s a lot of considerations.
They tip out people. Mm-hmm. , they have additional expenses. Right? And so for some people this could mean a large tax burden that is, that is not at all. supposed to be in place. So yeah, that’s, that’s how I’m feeling. .
[00:29:44] Eric Brotman: I’m not, I’m not a gambler, but my money’s on you. If it has to be, I think you can take down the whole thing.
I, I, I expect to see you on Capitol Hill.
[00:29:52] Barbara Sloan: I would love that. If anyone knows anyone, I, I, I like to say in the book, like, I’m not somebody who has those types of connections, but mm-hmm. , this [00:30:00] was what I could do, and so this is what I.
[00:30:02] Eric Brotman: Well, I don’t know if we can reach Snoop Dogg, but I do think possibly we can , I believe possibly we can reach someone who is involved in the, the lobbying against this particular new tax regime that’s being contemplated for, for tip workers and, and for those not familiar with it.
I, I don’t mean to, to veer political ever on this show. So this is not a political statement. It just happens to be mm-hmm. a, a, a topical tax issue that I, I think does. Need some consideration, and I appreciate you, you, um, being ready to advocate for that. I think, uh, like I said, my money’s on you. So last question.
We need an extra credit assignment because y y you, you’ve given us a ton of wisdom and there’s about 48 takeaways already, but we need one, um, not a hundred books to read though. I would give anything to see your list if you still have it. I would love that list. I was an English I love. , if you have that list and can send that to me, that would be, first of all, I’d love to know how many of your a hundred books I’ve [00:31:00] read.
And secondly, I’d like to start chipping away at ’em cuz clearly they’ve, they’ve brought some, some clarity and some wisdom to your life. So what is a good extra credit assignment other than reading a hundred books, which is too heavy A lift that feels like homework.
[00:31:12] Barbara Sloan: Okay, so I’m gonna tell people to think about that financial legitimacy concept within their own lives.
What are the things that you’ve maybe conformed to or that you hold up in your financial lives that make you feel valid? And then push those things around and see if they’re. Is ways for you to redefine them or to expand on the definitions for what makes you feel legitimate. And maybe you can break apart some of those, those concepts and realize that they don’t need to have such a hold on you.
So explore some financial legitimacy in how it’s showing up in your life.
[00:31:47] Eric Brotman: I, I’ve, I don’t think I’ve heard that term used prior to getting to know you, financial legitimacy. What are the things, if any, that those of us, either in the industry or not, [00:32:00] who maybe feel financially legitimate and without, and never really considered it?
Are there any things that we can do to help others who maybe aren’t? Whether it’s our own children, whether it’s, uh, coworkers, whether it’s strangers, what, what are the things. Either in the industry or just as citizens of the world we can do to help people feel that
[00:32:20] Barbara Sloan: way. Yeah, I mean, I think in our personal finance space, right, there’s lots of milestones along the paths that we think of as legitimizing us.
Whether it’s reaching coast by or, you know, getting to a certain point of net worth or. Maxine out your 401k. There’s lots of like milestones and goalposts For some people, financial legitimacy could be a degree, it could be a wedding, it could be a milestone within any identity and. . If you’re trying to help somebody expand that definition, maybe it means including other people, other new or different types of role models where you can think alternatively about [00:33:00] like, well, maybe that doesn’t need to be my path.
Maybe I can think about this in a bigger way. Maybe I don’t need to follow the traditional mold. I can do. My whole brand is that you can have success doing things alternatively, and so don’t just follow somebody else’s path toward your.
[00:33:19] Eric Brotman: sage advice. Barbara, you, you can be found@tippedfinance.com. I encourage everyone to get a copy of this book.
Uh, maybe not for your middle schoolers, but everybody else. Um, where can people find out more about you? What, what are the other resources you’d like to share or, or other places folks can, can, can find you. .
[00:33:37] Barbara Sloan: Yeah. Um, so yeah, tip finance.com. You can get the book on Amazon. You can type in tip, tip book. Um, you can reach out to me on all the socials.
I’m att finance. I mostly hang out on Instagram. You’ll find me there doing memes. I also do some standups, so I try to make financial , personal finance a little bit fun. Yeah, I just did a show at Gotham Comedy Club in New York. [00:34:00] Um, and so I’ve been posting some.
[00:34:02] Eric Brotman: Why do I not know about this? I wanna attend one of these shows.
Oh, great. Why did I not know about this? York, I’ll be in New York. I can come to New York. New York isn’t far. I would love to see one of your standup shows. . All right. I expect. I expect an invitation and a V I P table. Definitely next time. Cause you know, I just think that’s a good thing. I’ll pay for it. I just, you know.
All right. This was totally fun. Thank you, Barbara, for being on our show. It’s been a great conversation. I, I do hope folks will check out your book and your website and your coaching practice and your standup routine, which is now, I don’t know what I’m more excited about, do standup routine or the hundred books, but maybe both.
[00:34:41] Barbara Sloan: Eric, this was so much fun. Thank you for what you do. It’s so important. I, I so appreciate this opportu.
[00:34:46] Eric Brotman: Well, it’s my pleasure and it’s been a ton of fun. Thank you. I’d like to thank all of you for listening and watching today. We’d love to hear from you, so please send us a message or leave us comments at don’t retire graduate.com or on social media.
If you enjoy our show, [00:35:00] don’t keep it a secret. Share it with friends and family so they can join you on your journey to financial independence. And please leave ratings and reviews on your favorite podcast platform. They are priceless to us. We’ll be back next week with another installment of office Hours and in two weeks with another engaging.
For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman, reminding you don’t retire, graduate.
[00:35:29] Narrator: Securities offered through Ketra Investment Services, L L C, Ketra I s Member Finra, S I P C, investment advisory Services offered through Ketra Advisory Services, L L c Ketra A. An affiliate of Ketra is, Ketra is, or Ketra as are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.