Your Kids, Their Money: Sparking Financial Conversations and Teaching Finance with Clifton Corbin

[00:00:00] Eric Brotman: Welcome to Don’t Retire… graduate!: The podcast that asks you what you want to be when you grow up so you can graduate into retirement with purpose and passion. I’m your host in valedictorian, Eric Brotman, and today we have a guest, Clifton Corbin, who is a business consultant with two decades of experience when he left the office to become a full-time stay-at-home dad.
[00:00:24] Eric Brotman: During this time he authored his first book, your Kids Their Money, Focused on providing parents with the skills and tools to teach financial literacy to their children. I can tell already we’re gonna have a lively conversation and we’re kindred Spirits. Clifton, welcome to the show.
[00:00:39] Clifton Corbin: Thank you, Eric. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
[00:00:41] Eric Brotman: There’s so much I want to ask about the stay home dad thing, cuz I have some good friends who have who went that route. And it’s, it, to me, first of all, it’s, it’s kind of an amazing thing. But to me, I think if I was home a lot I would putter around and, and things would be, would be not good.
[00:00:57] Eric Brotman: In fact, my wife has said I’m never allowed to retire because I’d [00:01:00] be puttering around the kitchen. She doesn’t want that either. So, so tell us your story and a little bit about how that trajectory took you to do the things you did and make those decisions.
[00:01:09] Clifton Corbin: Sure, sure. So with regards to staying at home, actually lemme go back a little bit further.
[00:01:13] Clifton Corbin: So I talk a lot about money where, as you said, kindred spirits. So that started when I was a little kid. I was a money nerd before it was cool to put it on shirts, you know. I was, you know, so curious about money. I was always learning more about money or was trying to learn more about money.
[00:01:26] Clifton Corbin: And then I went off to university and did what so many people do. I made a mess in my finances. You know, fast forward I got out of it and I realized something I needed to do was to give back, to find, you know, find ways to help, you know, the next generation avoid some of the mistakes I made. With regards to staying at home.
[00:01:42] Clifton Corbin: I’ve got two young kids at home. And when my son was going off to elementary school, we noticed that he was pretty anxious and we knew, you know, having him do the afterschool care and all of that would probably not help with his transition to school. So I took a leave with the idea of maybe I’d go back, maybe I wouldn’t.
[00:01:59] Clifton Corbin: We, you know, messed [00:02:00] around with the finances and realized it wasn’t necessary for me to go back. It did mean, you know, retirement was pushed off quite a bit, but, uh, it didn’t mean we had to have two working parents, at least not two full-time working parents. And then fast forward, my daughter came around and it’s like, again, we don’t wanna have the afterschool care.
[00:02:15] Clifton Corbin: And it just, it’s just made sense. Uh, for a while, and we talked about it as like my partner and I, we talked about having a parent at home. Like that’s kind of how we grew up when we were younger with one parent at home for at least part of it. So we wanted to recreate some of that for our kids.
[00:02:29] Eric Brotman: Got it. No, I think there’s, there’s a lot to that and there’s a lot to the decisions around school and around aftercare and, and. You know, I’m a Gen Xer. I think I’m older than you, my friend, but I’m a, I’m a Gen Xer, which meant we were latchkey kids to a, to a given extent. Usually unsupervised and sort of walking ourselves to the bus to get to school and stuff that kids really don’t do anymore in a lot of ways, which we could talk about whether that’s good or bad, nonetheless, but, but, but to make that kind of decision, you said retirement has to be put off for a while, and I would argue you’re already.[00:03:00]
[00:03:00] Eric Brotman: And so let’s talk about what retirement is course. And, and I don’t mean retired, like not working, I mean retired, like, a sense of independence and a sense of your ability to do what it is you want to do that feels like retirement already. And that doesn’t mean you’re sitting around with your feet up.
[00:03:15] Eric Brotman: And I understand the difference. What it means is that, to me, retirement is not the absence of work. It’s the absence of needing. So if you’re in a position where you can do that, that’s a healthy thing.
[00:03:27] Clifton Corbin: I, I totally agree with you and I’m same generation. While I agree, you’re probably older than me, and I won’t say how I guessed that, but I, I agree. We’re probably in the same generation.
[00:03:35] Eric Brotman: Thank you so much, . Let me tell you, you know what payback is. If this wasn’t a family show, I would tell you what payback is, but I can’t do that.
[00:03:43] Clifton Corbin: You, you offered me some. I’m just offering some back.
[00:03:46] Eric Brotman: That’s fair.
[00:03:46] Clifton Corbin: Okay. With regards to retirement, you’re right. I would also probably agree with, I agree with what you said. I would say, you know, I’ve got the freedom to do the things that I want to do. But I’m in a partnership. My wife still needs to work, needs to work to [00:04:00] make all of this work. So as a, as a partnership we cannot be retired on a earlier timeframe. So as an individual, I’m, I’ve got the luxury to be able to do what I want with, you know, a little bit of, uh, access to my time and have choice over that. But as a, as a collective, we’re not, we’re not in that position yet.
[00:04:17] Eric Brotman: Makes perfect sense. So let, let, how old are your children?
[00:04:21] Clifton Corbin: So my son is 10 and my daughter is eight.
[00:04:23] Clifton Corbin: Okay.
[00:04:24] Eric Brotman: So I’m the proud parent of a new newly minted teenager, which is horrifying. To have a teenage girl in the house is a horrifying thing.
[00:04:32] Eric Brotman: But, but trying to teach her about money has been an incredibly challenging thing. And I know this is something you’re very passionate about and you’ve written a book on the subject, so, so let’s talk about some of the early money lessons maybe that you learned or experienced, good or bad. And then how you tried to translate that into your own parenting.
[00:04:50] Eric Brotman: And then we can talk about the book in a bit.
[00:04:52] Eric Brotman: Sure.
[00:04:53] Clifton Corbin: So when, like I said, I was a money geek as a little kid, so I was super curious about money. But it really revolved around two [00:05:00] things, earning money and saving money. So I, I had a lot of first jobs, like even as like a, a youngster, like the paper route, the lemonades stand.
[00:05:08] Clifton Corbin: There was a moment where my dad was, uh, a mechanic. He’s an academic, but he’s, he had a moment where he went back to being a mechanic. I basically, I bought the oil for the oil changes wholesale and sold them retail. So I didn’t get an allowance. I got a dividend check. So I’ve been, you know, from a very early age making money has always been something that was really fascinating to me. But then, like I said, I went off to university and I realized I didn’t understand credit, I didn’t understand most of the aspects of financial literacy. So, earning, saving, nailed those, got those down. But you know, What do you do with credit?
[00:05:38] Clifton Corbin: How do you manage debt? How do you use it to your advantage or not? You know, insurance, just wealth creation in general. Like, there’s all these aspects and facets of financial literacy that I just did not get access to at an early age. So I’ve tried to make sure that, you know, through my book and through my, my talks and through all the other things that I’m doing, I’m trying to make sure.
[00:05:57] Clifton Corbin: Young, young kids are getting [00:06:00] access to all of the pieces of financial literacy. So hopefully when they’re off on their own, they can draw on some of these things that they’ve learned while they’re at home with you, as their, you know, as a parent, as their guardian, as their advisor, and then they can apply it to their own lives.
[00:06:14] Eric Brotman: So trying to make money lessons relevant and age appropriate is something a lot of people struggle with. First of all, money’s still taboo. People don’t talk about money. And a lot of families don’t talk about money and so if you watch, if you’re one of those kids who watches your parents fight about money, you could have real baggage around it before you even know for sure the, the value of a dollar, so to speak.
[00:06:36] Clifton Corbin: For sure.
[00:06:37] Eric Brotman: How do you keep this age appropriate? At what age did you start your own kids on some type of money journey?
[00:06:43] Clifton Corbin: Sure. So I usually say especially for like the super young kids, you really need to go where they are, where they are. So for my son, I think I started talking about money when he was about four years old.
[00:06:54] Clifton Corbin: I tried to introduce an allowance with him and I realized, you know what? This, this just doesn’t work. Like we can’t, [00:07:00] he’s not old enough. He can’t do the math for it. It didn’t work. So we just brought it back to. Playing games. We’re all playing games, like turning the bedroom into like a grocery store or a restaurant, and doing all those fun activities for him at a young age, you know, with the cash register.
[00:07:12] Clifton Corbin: So cash register. So we’re doing games and we’re talking about money, but we’re not doing it in a way that was overly cumbersome or complicated for him to understand. And I’ve tried to continue with that. So it’s, I, what I try to do is just introduce, you know, your stories. So kids love to hear our stories.
[00:07:28] Clifton Corbin: They’re, they’re fascinated by our journey. So I try to, you know, encourage my, like I just talk about what’s happened in my life. Like I talk about the time when, you know, I lost a job, or I talk about the time when I got that first job and when I, you know, the money I saved or the money I didn’t save, and the ramifications of that.
[00:07:44] Clifton Corbin: So I tell my stories in hopes that my kids, you know, will resonate with this fact that, you know, This person that they know has gone through this journey. So that’s one way of doing it, especially for the older kids. Like they’re probably not gonna do role playing games with you, but they’re probably still fascinated by your life lessons.
[00:07:59] Clifton Corbin: [00:08:00] So that’s another way that you could just introduce money concepts in an age appropriate way. Cause the last thing, like you said, if you’re arguing about money or, or money is something that’s a challenge in your life, you don’t want to bring that to your child. That’s, that’s not the idea. You wanna bring it to them in a fun engaging way.
[00:08:16] Clifton Corbin: whether that’s through games, you know, playing monopoly, telling your stories, reading books. There’s so many, like I’ve got a list of great, kids books from like pre basically preschool all the way up to teenager on my website. And any one of those books would be great resource for kids to start hearing about some of these lessons and doing it in a way that’s fun for them.
[00:08:33] Clifton Corbin: That’s not, you know, sitting them around the fireplace with a lecture..
[00:08:37] Eric Brotman: Well, that’s good cuz that doesn’t work.
[00:08:39] Clifton Corbin: it does not.
[00:08:39] Eric Brotman: I found allowance not to be that particularly helpful either, although we did the three jars for a while where we had some money go to charity and some money go to savings and some money go to fun.
[00:08:48] Eric Brotman: And that was impactful until it wasn’t. And there was a point where, where that’s difficult. I mean, you want your kids to have an abundance mentality, not a scarcity one. but you also, I think, and I’m imposing my own, [00:09:00] my own will on you, so push back if, if that’s not the right message. But, I, I think even though you want them to have an abundance mentality, you don’t want them to take it for granted.
[00:09:09] Clifton Corbin: No, I agree with you.
[00:09:09] Eric Brotman: How do you teach grit while still having that abundance mindset?
[00:09:14] Clifton Corbin: I agree with you. And so for me, when it comes to the allowance, I like to say, you know, what is the purpose of the allowance? Is it just to give your kid money so they have money? No, it’s another learning tool.
[00:09:24] Clifton Corbin: It’s another opportunity for them to start practicing money habits, whether that be transacting, saving, donating, just counting, whatever it is. So, The allowance only has so much benefit, especially as your kids grow out of it. But what you can do, especially if you know you’ve got a teenager in your life is switch that allowance to a budget.
[00:09:42] Clifton Corbin: Like you have budgets that you’re, you’re the money that you’re planning to spend for your child, whether that be, you know, lunch money or toiletries or what have you have that, or even clothing, you know, back to school. Just a few examples. I like the idea of like giving them access to that budget and then have them manage that [00:10:00] budget.
[00:10:00] Clifton Corbin: So again, they’re not just getting an allowance and then that’s it. It’s an allowance. Without the conversation, an allowance, without the discussion, an allowance, without you coaching and helping and advising them really is nothing. It’s useless. You really need to have both. But like I said, you’ve kind of got the, the teenager in your life now.
[00:10:16] Clifton Corbin: This is the time where you want to kind of transition to managing a, a budget. But with regards to your specific question about grit and making sure that they’re not just, you know, looking for a handout, I don’t give them much, like, they don’t get a whole lot from me. Like they’re gonna get enough to, you know, hopefully start building up that habit of saving.
[00:10:33] Clifton Corbin: But if they really want to go out and get something, they still have to go out and earn it. And I think those early jobs really start teaching them, you know, how to have that, that positive work mentality. My son, for example, he started up a baking business over the summer. Went to a bunch of farmer’s markets and sold. It taught him how to plan it, taught him how to budget it, taught him how to like, manage, afloat.
[00:10:53] Clifton Corbin: So all of these things he’s learning at 10. And that’s not coming from the allowance that’s coming from his. Desire to [00:11:00] have more money than the allowance would afford him and his desire to, you know, make people happy and bake and do these, this fun activity that he enjoys. But I really feel like those first jobs give you an opportunity to kind of help your child learn some of that grit and some of that, some of that resilience that you want.
[00:11:14] Clifton Corbin: I find that hard to deal with the allowance because the allowance, like I said, it’s really a means to practice the, the transactions and all these other habits. But it, it can only, like you said in your words, it can only get you so far.
[00:11:25] Eric Brotman: So let’s talk about the book. What inspired you to take pen to paper and, and put a book together?
[00:11:32] Eric Brotman: It’s a hard, it’s a huge, it’s a, it’s a heavy lift. It’s hard. Writing a book is not easy. So, so tell us about that.
[00:11:38] Clifton Corbin: Sure. So I kind of give you a bit about my, my Money journey. So I started off, you know, being very fascinated about money and then, you know, making a bit of a mess on my finances in, in university, and then kind of figuring out after.
[00:11:49] Clifton Corbin: And like I said, my, my objective was to help the next generation avoid some of those mistakes. And then when I looked back, I was like, well, what was, what’s a tool that I can offer to help [00:12:00] with this? And one of the things is to help parents have these conversations. Help give parents the resources. So that was the, that’s the why behind the book.
[00:12:07] Clifton Corbin: It’s to make sure that, you know, parents have the resources, have the language, have the full picture of financial literacy that they can then offer to their children. It started as a blog. I feel like a lot of these projects start as a blog, as listened to a past episode of yours with Tiff. And I think her project started as a blog as well.
[00:12:24] Clifton Corbin: And it really is, and I love the blog cause it’s just, you know, it’s an opportunity to start, you know, getting some thoughts off of your chest. But I had an interview with someone and she said some iconic words to me. She’s like, A blog is good, but a book is better. And I was like, you’re right. So I, you know, I took the concepts of the blog. And then I started to flesh those out a little bit more, did some research, and just, you know, you, you chip away at it bit by bit. But it came together really quickly because it was so, it’s like I said, you said it yourself. I’m very passionate about this. So I was very excited to do it.
[00:12:52] Clifton Corbin: And it’s just the first of, of many. I’ve, you know, I’ve got a second book that I just released. It’s not totally mine. It’s a revision of the [00:13:00] Richest Man in Babylon that I worked on with my son. So I’m sure you know the book, the Richest Man in Babylon.
[00:13:04] Eric Brotman: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:05] Clifton Corbin: Yeah. So I’ve been encouraging folks to read this book forever. I think it’s a wonderful book. It’s got great lessons in it. I tried reading it to my son, who I mentioned is 10 and his eyes just glazed over. I don’t know what you’re saying, right? So I said, all right, well, why don’t we, why don’t we see if we can make this better?
[00:13:21] Clifton Corbin: Make it so that you do understand it. Make it so that it’s, you know, not like the book came out in 1926, so let’s, let’s give it a refresh. So he and I worked on that. So again, it’s just trying to create products and resources and, and different services that I know will help parents and kids get these concepts so that once they need them, they have them, they understand them, or if they need to, they can just seek it out and they have a, a resource there that they can use.
[00:13:48] Eric Brotman: So, so writing a book among other things is a lesson in time management and tenacity, so I give you credit for that. I, having, having done this myself and thinking I may never do it again, I’m three [00:14:00] down and zero to go. I think although I, although you know, you know, you always have to update some of these, if there’s, if there’s content in them that’s timely, which sometimes there is.
[00:14:10] Eric Brotman: Are you a writer by training? Did did you, did you are I’m an English major. Did you study English in school or did you just love to write or how did that work?
[00:14:16] Clifton Corbin: None of the above. In fact, I, I often joke if computers didn’t come around with spellcheck, I might still be in elementary and high school right now because I, I can’t spell and my grammar’s terrible. But I do like to read and that came in my later years. I do enjoyed books. My first degree is in computer engineering, my second degree as an mba. So writing isn’t something that necessarily is my thing. I’m, I feel like I’ve gotten better at it as I’ve done it more. But my father, as I mentioned, is he’s an educator.
[00:14:43] Clifton Corbin: And I’ve always wanted to help and support and I just, you know, you take what you have and you work with it and you refine it. Like you said, it’s, it’s, it’s all about managing your time and, and being diligent. To be honest, the book was written in 2019. My kids came home and I, [00:15:00] my, I, my, the idea was that I was gonna publish it in 2020.
[00:15:02] Clifton Corbin: 2020 happened, so I did nothing. I shelved it for a year, and then, you know, 2021 came out and I was like, okay, I really want to get back to this. So even, it’s not even just the writing, it’s really just being passionate about the subject matter. Like, if you’re not passionate about what you’re writing about, it’s not, it’s not gonna work.
[00:15:19] Eric Brotman: Yeah, I did publish in 2020 and couldn’t do a book tour and couldn’t do any of the things that, that would’ve marketed the book, but I was so excited to get it to market and to get it out in the world that I went ahead and did it. You probably did it better because waiting, waiting that year when people were freaked out, it, it, it wasn’t a bad, it was. It was a bad time to publish anything or put anything out there.
[00:15:40] Clifton Corbin: The weight was not voluntary. My, both my kids came home to do the online at home schooling. And it just, it, it wasn’t an option. I was full-time stay-at-home dad, full-time teacher, principal, administrator. I was, I was the, everything, trying to hold it all together and it was not a, it was not a good year for us, so it, it wasn’t an option to even try to get it up.
[00:15:59] Eric Brotman: Well, it worked out in your [00:16:00] favor. I believe that.
[00:16:01] Clifton Corbin: I think so.
[00:16:02] Eric Brotman: I mean, things happen for a reason, right? I mean, I think it worked out in your favor. So, so we talk a lot on this show, and it sounds like you’ve heard it before. In fact, TIFF just celebrated her fifth anniversary of her, of her show, which is phenomenal.
[00:16:13] Eric Brotman: She’s doing a, a lot of great things. We are, we’re trying to help change the mindset for folks around financial independence. And there’s, there’s so much material. There’s so many, so much content out there, you know, content’s been democratized. It’s no longer your three primary networks that tell you what, what they want you to hear for half an hour every night.
[00:16:32] Eric Brotman: Now it’s millions of independent creators, which is a wonderful, amazing thing. It also makes it overwhelming to find, to sort of separate what is, what is wisdom from what is drivel. And so how do you, how do you distinguish, or how do you separate your, your own work? And you said you had a list of, of children’s books.
[00:16:52] Eric Brotman: How do you, how do you separate those? What is the criteria that you used to say, this is really, really good and this one’s not so much. Like, how, how subjective is [00:17:00] that?
[00:17:01] Clifton Corbin: That’s a great question. That is a great question. It is. It’s the challenge that we’re going to have going forward. I, I don’t know, again, my background is tech, and I remember a while ago, uh, a book came out called The Long Tail, and it was basically highlighting the fact that it, you know, in this generation and in these years coming forward, it’s really about filtering and how do we filter information to make sure we’re getting, you know, quality versus, as you said, like the drivel that can come out. I have, you know, I’ve been doing this for a while. I’ve been reading about financial literacy.
[00:17:28] Clifton Corbin: I’ve been reading about economics. This is like this is not just like A part-time thing for me, so I know what quality content is. I also, you know, as for my book, I use, you know, journal articles that have been reviewed. I’m not just using, you know, Wikipedia or another blog post to come up with the, the, the data for my book.
[00:17:48] Clifton Corbin: I try to use credible sources and those sources, you know, usually have some backing to give them the credibility. So it’s, it’s hard. I don’t know if I have a great answer for you other than, you know, [00:18:00] when I talk to folks, I say, find those sources that really resonate with you, one. Like you, like yourself, or Tiff, or myself, what have you, but you also have to make sure that what you’re seeing isn’t totally against the grain. Right? Like, the reason why I love the Richest Man in Babylon, it came out in 1926, but the, the, the principles that it talks about still work today, like managing money while you, you’re right, it’s taboo.
[00:18:26] Clifton Corbin: We don’t talk about it. We, we don’t talk about it enough. The concepts really haven’t changed that much. Like we have, you know, new FinTech companies, different products, and crypto and all of these things, but the concepts themselves, you know, trying to live off of lesson you make, paying yourself first.
[00:18:42] Clifton Corbin: All of these principles, they, they don’t typically change. Like we haven’t learned anything better. So I use my baseline, which is, is this giving the same messages that I know work because I’ve tested them, I know they work for me. And I’ve also seen, you know, other professionals out there mentioning [00:19:00] these same resources.
[00:19:00] Clifton Corbin: So it’s a valid question. But you really kinda have to use your, your filter and find that resource that, that resonates with you.
[00:19:09] Eric Brotman: I think there’s a, there’s a community. You’re part of FinCon, right? You, you met, I was You met at FinCon and, and so, which I happen to think is still the, the greatest poorly kept secret ever because there’s thousands of people show up and so many people have never heard of it, which is kind of an amazing thing.
[00:19:26] Eric Brotman: I also can’t figure out why more financial advisors don’t go, but I digress.
[00:19:30] Clifton Corbin: It was, yeah, it was my first, and it was wonderful.
[00:19:33] Eric Brotman: Oh, wow. Okay. So I, I’ve been to five or six of them and, and 2023 is already on the calendar. I mean, it’s just something I don’t miss. Okay. Because, because the energy in the room, the collaboration, the sharing, the, the, the quality of people and the quality of content and the, and just the it’s a community.
[00:19:49] Eric Brotman: It’s a special place. Like I, I showed up. I didn’t know what a money nerd was till I showed up at my first one and then realized, oh my gosh, I found my. . Yeah. Like, I knew I was a nerd and I knew I liked money. I didn’t know it was a thing. So it [00:20:00] sounds like, like I said, we’re kindred spirits. We, we discovered that together, which is kind of neat.
[00:20:04] Eric Brotman: So let’s talk about education. And specifically the, the cost of education. I don’t know where you are geographically, though, you, you said you went to university rather than saying you went to college, which makes me think you either Canada or or Europe. Are you in the us? You’re Canadian?
[00:20:18] Clifton Corbin: I’m in Canada.
[00:20:18] Eric Brotman: You say I went to university.
[00:20:20] Clifton Corbin: Yeah. But I have, uh, I have one degree from Canada and my master’s is from the United States. So I’ve kind of, I’ve, I’ve bridged the, I bridged the borders.
[00:20:27] Eric Brotman: Well, I, I wasn’t a hundred percent sure, but when you said I went to university, I said it’s either, it’s either the UK or Canada.
[00:20:33] Clifton Corbin: You picked up on that.
[00:20:34] Eric Brotman: Yeah, I did.
[00:20:34] Clifton Corbin: I tried to, I tried to swap it for the audience, but yeah, you picked up on that.
[00:20:37] Eric Brotman: No, it’s fine. It, listen, we, we’ve, it’s the same thing. And we’ve had a, we’ve had a number of Canadian guests on, in fact, I had a, interviewed somebody recently who said I was the most Canadian American he’d ever met, just because I could speak, I, I could speak Canadian cuz I’ve been all over the country.
[00:20:52] Eric Brotman: I love, I love Canada. So, but let’s talk about the cost of education and, you know, our audience is, is [00:21:00] worldwide, although it, it mostly is American, at least North American. College or university has gotten so outrageously expensive that at some point I, I think there might be a tipping point where some of it doesn’t make sense.
[00:21:15] Eric Brotman: How do you help counsel folks who want the best for their, for their children? We all want the best for our kids. How do you counsel them when there are so many choices out there and when this particular choice feels like it’s less of an automatic path now? How do you, how do you do that?
[00:21:31] Clifton Corbin: You’re, you, you nailed it.
[00:21:33] Clifton Corbin: I don’t know if it is an automatic path now. Like there’s so many, man, my, my brain’s exploding on that question. So one, there’s the cost. The only way to manage the cost, you, you could start saving early. One of the things that I’ve done, I shouldn’t say “I,” I should say my, my, my wife and I, we’ve done, we stop giving our, our nieces and nephews any Christmas or birthday presents.
[00:21:54] Clifton Corbin: It goes straight into a 529 just because, You know, like you said, the cost are astronomical, but I don’t know if [00:22:00] it is necessarily an automatic. Now you kind of like the idea of, you know, that, that semester where you kind of figure it out, you can’t afford to do that if it’s gonna leaden you with all this debt at the end of it.
[00:22:10] Clifton Corbin: So, What I’ve been saying, and I know you kind of asked this question, so I don’t wanna steal your thunder, but what I’ve been saying is instead of asking our, our kids, you know, what do you want to do? Or what do you wanna be when you grow up? I’ve been trying to reverse it and, and revise it to say, what’s something you can imagine yourself doing for five years. In the next five years for just five years. Like I want the window to be five years. Cause as you and anyone else who’s probably got a degree out there, knows, you know, we’re, we’re likely to have multiple different jobs, potentially different careers, lots of different jumps. So what I want our youngsters to know is that, you know, that degree won’t define you. It won’t define your, your career. It’s the foot in the door to get that first job. It’s the foot in the door to kind of get your, your, you know, to get your feet [00:23:00] wet, to kind of get a sense of what the working world is. And then maybe you decide, this isn’t for me, but you still have the degree.
[00:23:05] Clifton Corbin: So what I’ve been trying to, like I said, trying to refocus it to say, what’s something that you’re really passionate about? but you don’t need to put all the pressure of this is the decision for the rest of my life. These are, this is the, the career or the job or the degree that’s going to take me from here till I retire.
[00:23:22] Clifton Corbin: Cause I feel like that’s too much pressure to put on children. So that’s kind of the, the, the reframing that I’ve been trying to, to put. And if the, if the, if the answer to that question is something that doesn’t necessarily require schooling then maybe you don’t do schooling right away. Maybe you don’t go to post-secondary right away.
[00:23:39] Clifton Corbin: It doesn’t mean that’s now off the table. It just means, and I’m sure you’ve seen this where you meet the mature students. They’re more dedicated, they’re more passionate. They’re more, they’re the best students you’re going to find because they’ve decided to, in addition to all of the life responsibilities they have, they’ve decided to now come back to academia because they know the benefits that that [00:24:00] will give them.
[00:24:00] Clifton Corbin: I’m just using someone in my own life. My dad is, gosh, he’s 73, I think, and he went back to do his PhD a couple years ago. Why? Because he is passionate about it. He sees value in it. He’s a great student. Because he knows the value of this degree. You know, when you’re 17, 18, It’s still fluid, right?
[00:24:19] Clifton Corbin: Like you’re still kind of figuring it out. So one, make sure you kind of have a sense of what you want to do, not for the rest of your life, but for five years. And if you can dedicate yourself to, you know, the education and that first job, it can be a little bit easier as far as like, The guidance, like what you do. With the finance financial piece of it, you have to save early, you know, seek any grants, bursaries or, scholarships that you can.
[00:24:44] Clifton Corbin: There’s no, there’s no, you know, one answer fits all for this one. It’s really student dependent.
[00:24:50] Eric Brotman: I’m anxious to see how this pendulum continues to swing in terms of whether higher education becomes a path for [00:25:00] just about everyone, or whether we start to see that that shift. Because to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for an undergraduate degree, that really is only an entry ticket.
[00:25:11] Eric Brotman: For that kind of money you could buy a business. A good one. A profitable one.
[00:25:15] Clifton Corbin: You could buy a couple houses. Start real estate, you know, be the next real estate mogul.
[00:25:20] Eric Brotman: Lots of things. And, and that’s not to downplay education.
[00:25:22] Clifton Corbin: No, not at all.
[00:25:23] Eric Brotman: With my own daughter I desperately hope that she wants to continue her education, but I don’t know what it’s gonna be.
[00:25:28] Eric Brotman: I don’t know whether she wants to go, to go work toward her PhD or whether she wants to be an entrepreneur, in which case it’s a totally different kind of, kind of path. So I guess we’ll wait and see. So you hit it on the head, you asked, what do you wanna do for the next five years? I’m not letting you off that.
[00:25:44] Eric Brotman: I actually do want to know what you want to be when you grow up because, because we stop asking people that when they’re young. And since we’ve decided you’re almost as old as I am. What do you want to be when you grow up?
[00:25:57] Clifton Corbin: So, it’s so funny when I was trying to figure out, you [00:26:00] know, my educational path, I, you know, I ended up in engineering.
[00:26:03] Clifton Corbin: I’ve always had a passion for business. So I did the engineering degree, I did the business degree, but I remember when I was younger, I had a couple people, you know, mentors, my, my parents like, what about teaching? And I was like, no, I have no, I have no interest in teaching. And only to find myself teaching, this is what, this is what I’m doing. I’m doing it in a different route. You know, I’m doing it via my book. I’m doing it via workshops. I’m doing it via, you know, talks with parent associations, what have you. But it’s what I am doing, it’s what I’m enjoying. So if I had to answer that question, I wanna be, a financial literacy teacher, but not in a classroom. Not in a classroom. I’d want to do it in, you know, settings that give me a little bit more intimacy, whether it be, you know, like a, a like a virtual workshop or a in-person workshop or what have you. So I’ve, I’ve gone full circle from, I would never wanna be a teacher to, I think that’s kind of my calling.
[00:26:53] Eric Brotman: Okay. No, I like that. Are, are you able to, as a father of two and a, and a writer and a [00:27:00] a and an entrepreneur, do you have time to do a lot of philanthropy? Have you found organizations that work toward financial literacy that you’re able to, to help with or that you’re passionate about?
[00:27:11] Clifton Corbin: I’m still working towards that. So with regards to philanthropy, like I do a lot of volunteer work. It’s one of the benefits of being a stay-at-home dad in that, you know, I have a little bit more control over my time. So I’ve done quite a bit of volunteer work specifically with financial literacy. I’ve done a lot of pro bono talks.
[00:27:25] Clifton Corbin: And that’s kind of the way I’ve been able to give back, um, so far. But I’m still looking for organizations that I pair with and partner with because I, I, I feel like. We, and you mentioned it with FinCon, we all get better when we’re working together. Like it just, the community is what makes this work so well.
[00:27:42] Clifton Corbin: So I’m still looking for those communities and if you know, you’re, you’re listening and you’re, you’re like, Hey, this guy might be someone I’d be interested in partnering with, you know, send me an email, I’d be happy to connect.
[00:27:51] Eric Brotman: Where, where in Canada are you?
[00:27:53] Clifton Corbin: I’m in Toronto.
[00:27:54] Eric Brotman: Toronto I believe Toronto has at least one chapter of Junior achievement.
[00:27:59] Clifton Corbin: They do. They do. [00:28:00] That’s an organization that I’ve been, yeah, I’ve been
[00:28:02] Eric Brotman: Oh, so if you’ve done some volunteering with them, I think they’re unbelievable. And, and for those…
[00:28:07] Clifton Corbin: I haven’t yet, but I did hear about them. Sorry, go ahead.
[00:28:09] Eric Brotman: For those, for those listeners who don’t know Junior Achievement, it is a, it is a financial litera cy behemoth of a, of an organization that helps school-aged kids all the way through, learn some lessons about money. They do some incredible programs, and I would, I would say check that out. And they are international. I know there are chapters here in Maryland and I, and I know there’s some in Ontario as well, so you should be all set.
[00:28:30] Eric Brotman: So last, last question. The last question is because you’re a teacher and I expect, I expect A work on this, Clifton, I need an extra credit assign. Because you’re not allowed to assign homework to our audience, but you can give us an extra credit assignment, what would that be today?
[00:28:48] Clifton Corbin: If you’re, if you have a child in your life, if you’ve got, you know, nephews, nieces, your own children, Just make talking about money something that’s not taboo. Just talk to them about [00:29:00] money in a fun way. Give them one story, one fun, you know, whimsical story about how money had an impact in your life that will, you know, get them thinking about, you know, some financial concept, whether it be saving, earning, investing, donating.
[00:29:16] Clifton Corbin: Just give them one, one fun story. And I think it will, it’ll make, it’ll make a world of difference.
[00:29:22] Eric Brotman: excellent advice, and I hope folks will take it. Where can people get your book? Where can they learn more about you and your, your workshops and your programs?
[00:29:30] Clifton Corbin: Sure. So you can find me on cliftoncorbin.com. You can access my books there as well.
[00:29:35] Clifton Corbin: Amazon.com or Audible, for, your Kids Their Money. That’s my, my first book. It’s a Parent’s Guide to Raising Financial Literate Children. My blog again, cliftoncorbin.com/blog. You can also find me on LinkedIn. I’m kind of, I’m kind of all over the place, so, yeah, just, or you can, or shoot me an email if you have a question about, you know, some of the things I talked about here, or, or just in general.
[00:29:56] Clifton Corbin: You can reach me at hello@cliftoncorbin.com.
[00:29:59] Eric Brotman: Excellent. We’ll [00:30:00] make sure to put that in our show notes when the show goes live. And I, I can’t thank you enough for being here, and I trust I will see you in New Orleans in 2023 at FinCon.
[00:30:09] Clifton Corbin: The ticket, the ticket is purchased.
[00:30:10] Eric Brotman: I will look forward to it.
[00:30:11] Eric Brotman: Thanks for being a guest. You were terrific. And and I, I know there was a lot of wisdom here and I hope folks enjoyed it.
[00:30:17] Clifton Corbin: Thank you Eric, and I appreciate you one. I appreciate you having me on and I appreciate the show. Like thank you for doing this, this, this is just so useful. Like you were asking before about where people can find good information.
[00:30:27] Clifton Corbin: You are it. So thank you for doing the show.
[00:30:30] Eric Brotman: Oh, very kind, very kind. Thank you. I’d like to thank all of you for listening and watching today. We’d love to hear from you, so please leave comments or send us a message at dontretiregraduate.com. If you enjoy our show, don’t keep us a secret. Share with your friends and family so they can join you on your journey to financial freedom.
[00:30:47] Eric Brotman: We’ll be back next week with another installment of Office Hours, and in two weeks with another engaging guest. For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman, reminding you don’t retire, graduate.[00:31:00]
[00:31:06] Narattor: Securities offered through Kestra Investment Services, L L C, Kestra IS Member Finra, S I P C, investment advisory Services offered through Kestra Advisory Services, LLC Kestra AS, an affiliate of Kestra IS. Kestra IS or Kestra AS are not affiliated with Brotman Financial or any other entity discussed.