Season 4, Episode 2 Happiness, Abundance, and Freedom: Changing Your Mindset to Improve Your Life

Eric Brotman: [00:00:00] Welcome to Don’t Retire… Graduate!: The podcast that teaches you how to advance into retirement rather than retreating. I’m your host and valedictorian Eric Brotman. And we have a terrific guest today who is a podcast host at a health and money mindset and business coach and someone who works with entrepreneurs to create levels of divine abundance. And I love that. Lisa Holtan welcome to Don’t Retire… Graduate!

Lisa Holtan: Thanks, Eric so much for having me on.

Eric Brotman: It’s nice to talk to you again, I, at, for, for full disclosure, I had a chance to be on your, your podcast, uh, at which is, which is truly phenomenal. It’s called the high vibe money tribe.

Eric Brotman: Uh, and, and I know we’ll, we’ll put in our show notes today how folks can check out your show, but tell our audience a little bit about how you got interested in personal finance and in, in coaching and in money and, and all of these things to get us.

Lisa Holtan: Yeah. So it’s a bit of a roller [00:01:00] coaster journey actually.

Lisa Holtan: Um, I have a health and fitness background. I’m a personal trainer by trade, so to speak a nutritionalist, but I’ve always been interested in personal finance and money. And, um, the things that my husband and I do with our money, I just thought was normal because it’s what we’ve done for 20 years. It’s what I’ve always known.

Lisa Holtan: And when I started coaching people on health and fitness, the, they want to talk to you basically about everything while they’re doing squats. And I came to realize that what we do with our money is completely different from what the majority of other people do with their money and how they think about their money.

Lisa Holtan: So when I was transitioning from owning my own brick and mortar gym to being, um, an online coach, I decided to incorporate that money mindset piece to it because what my husband and I were doing with our money and how we think about money is very different. And like I said, I didn’t think it was, but it’s very different [00:02:00] than how the general public relates to their money.

Eric Brotman: For the record. I have never wanted to talk about anything while I’m doing squats. If, if you’re, you must be working with some folks who can do two things at once, I have an X, Y chromosome. So I actually can’t do that. If I’m doing squats, I’m only doing squats and possibly swearing. So there’s that? Um, so, so financial, financial fitness.

Eric Brotman: Um, is very similar to nutritional fitness or physical fitness or mental and emotional fitness or so, so, you know, there’s certainly is a, a lot of similarities when you’re coaching someone for, for personal finance and for personal health. Um, so tell us about the money mindset and tell us how you’ve been able to incorporate that into the work that you’re doing with folks who are also doing squats.

Lisa Holtan: Yeah. Yes. So if you think about it from a health perspective, when someone is starting out on a diet, [00:03:00] if you continue to say to yourself, I can’t eat the cake, I can’t have the Oreos. Those things are off limits. What happens to those food items? It’s becomes all you think about, right? And you constantly want to eat the cake and the Oreos, and you’re thinking about it.

Lisa Holtan: And over time, your willpower fades and eventually you eat the whole box of Oreos. So instead of, that’s kind of the same thing, how we think about money? Like, oh, I want that purse. Oh, I can’t have that purse. Oh, I want those expensive shoes. I can’t have those shoes. And then you go out and you buy, you know, the shoes that costs $500 that maybe aren’t in your budget.

Lisa Holtan: And then what happens just like in the eating, the whole Oreo thing, you feel bad, you feel like I did it again. I’m a failure. I can’t ever do that. If we can just switch our mindset and the words we say to ourselves, whether it’s in health and fitness or whether it’s with our money, that is where true abundance can come from then.

Lisa Holtan: So instead of saying, I can’t have the Oreos or I can’t have those shoes, you switch [00:04:00] your mindset to. I don’t want the Oreos. I don’t want those shoes right now. I am choosing to not buy those shoes right now, because going on a vacation is more important to me and that’s how I want to spend my money. Or my health is more important to me.

Lisa Holtan: So I’m not going to eat those Oreos. So it is a simple change in the words you say to yourself.

Eric Brotman: So what we’re really talking about is a way to manage resources that are finite. So. Uh, caloric intake or, or expenses because all of us have, um, tradeoffs, you know, the one thing you buy is something else you potentially can’t buy.

Eric Brotman: You certainly can’t use the same dollar twice. And if you eat, if you eat too much of the cake, you, you aren’t getting the broccoli that you really wanted. Um, at least that’s how it goes in my house. Of course, that’s my story. And I’m sticking to it. If resources are finite. And if you know that there’s going to be a certain amount, um, and, and, and we can use calories and we use money [00:05:00] sort of interchangeably, um, changing your mindset begins, it sounds like, with changing your inner conversation.

Lisa Holtan: Correct? Yes. It’s all about changing the words you say to yourself. Again, if you have two people and they each wake up in the morning and one starts their day saying today is going to be a great day. I can’t wait to get in my workout and drink my coffee.

Lisa Holtan: See my coworkers and have fun. How is that person going to start their day versus the person who gets up and says, oh my God, it’s Friday. Oh my gosh, this is awful. This week has been horrible. All my gosh. Now I have to go into work and oh my gosh, I just spilled my coffee. Well, like how is that day going to go for that person?

Lisa Holtan: So like which one do you want to be?

Eric Brotman: I’ll take door a please. That sounds good. I actually, I actually, it drives my wife crazy, but I wake up every day. Like it’s going to be the best day of my life. Um, for what I learned from the Dale Carnegie program to live in day tight [00:06:00] compartments, I literally start fresh every day.

Eric Brotman: Um, not, not in the Drew Barrymore 51st dates kind of way where I don’t remember yesterday, but just in the way where I start and I have a clean slate to make today a great day. Now I will confess that some of those days don’t stay that great, but I certainly go into them with, with that idea. So, so you’re doing coaching.

Eric Brotman: Are you doing coaching for executives, for entrepreneurs, for families, for individuals who are the folks that you’re, um, who’s in your roundhouse? Who are you helping the most?

Lisa Holtan: Typically entrepreneurs or solo preneurs that are looking to increase their, their cash flow, increase their abundance and, and maybe they’re stuck and they don’t know how, and it generally all comes back to your mindset.

Lisa Holtan: And the words you say to yourself and how you look at your priorities. So we talk a lot about priorities.

Eric Brotman: When, when new clients join our firm, that one of the first things that we do is we help them with inventory. You know, we help them figure out exactly what what’s on [00:07:00] paper what’s here now. And we do a model that we call initial and we say, this is the condition in which we’ve found you.

Eric Brotman: Okay. So because arguably, there’s a reason why folks are, are wanting advice, but we have to have a starting point. We have to know where people are to know where they want to go. What are the, what are the mindsets or the sticking points, or maybe the commonalities, um, that folks may have when they’re in the condition in which you find.

Lisa Holtan: Yeah. You know, a lot of people have the same mindset or thoughts around money. They think it’s hard to get, um, you know, money doesn’t grow on trees is always the same. That I hear from everybody. Um, you know, it’s hard to make a buck. Um, it’s hard to save. Everything is expensive. And again, it’s all about your priorities and how you shift the thoughts you say to yourself.

Lisa Holtan: So I’ll give you an example. Uh, when I talk about priorities, this is a big one with my clients. And the example is, [00:08:00] um, my husband and I always chose to live in a smaller home. So our home is about 1900 square feet. Yes. There’s only three of us. And it’s also more inexpensive, right? It’s only 1900 square feet as opposed to like a 5,000 square foot home we could live in, but we choose to live in a smaller home because we prioritize, travel over a big house.

Lisa Holtan: So I would rather go on five vacations a year than live in a 5,000 square foot house and have to clean that house. I would rather have money to eat out at whatever restaurant I want whenever. Than to have to, again, clean my 5,000 square foot house, but that’s my priorities. And that might not be yours.

Lisa Holtan: Sometimes my client’s priorities are to have that McMansion and they want that 5,000 square foot house. That’s great. But then don’t complain about not being able to go on vacation because your priority is that house.

Eric Brotman: How good a job do you think couples [00:09:00] do either before they get married or after they get married at discovering what those priorities are for each person in a, in a related.

Eric Brotman: People are very bad at this. Okay. Well, I, you know, I tend to think that’s true because if, if your priority is travel and your husband’s priority is the big house and you do both, you will potentially wind up in some trouble, but if you do neither, you’ll potentially both be pretty unhappy. So there’s sort of a negotiation slash compromise, or you need to find someone that’s reasonably aligned with you. Um, how, how do you, when, when you work with a married couple and they come in and they’ve been together five years and they’re gloriously in love and happy and starting a family and everything’s good. Except the money conversations or they’re stuck on, which I think, you know, the two things people fight about the most in a relationship or money and children.

Eric Brotman: Yeah. So if w if one of them is something we can help with, because I’m no child psychologist, but if we can help with the money piece, w w how do you get these [00:10:00] folks communicating and unstuck? What, what would be an actionable. You know, my wife and I sit down with you for the first time. And I say, you know, I really love the travel and I want to see all the seven wonders of the world.

Eric Brotman: And she says, I really want a giant house. I’d rather have a pool in the backyard than ever see the beach again. What, what, what, how do you, how do you

Lisa Holtan: approach that? Yeah, the first way to approach it is I really have them both write down what their priorities are. Like, if, if you could do whatever you wanted with your.

Lisa Holtan: What would make you the happiest to do, you know, like how do you want to spend that money? And they first write them down separately. Then we come together and we talk about them and I asked them to listen objectively. So listen to what your wife and your husband has to say, or your spouse has to say and pretend you’re just an outsider listening in.

Lisa Holtan: So don’t put any emotion on it, just listen to what they have. Then we try to find some common ground. And normally it’s pretty easy to find some common ground because typically [00:11:00] I, at least haven’t worked with people that are too far apart on the spectrum. So if, if one of them wants a house with a pool and the other one wants to travel the world, we can generally come together to like, okay, maybe you can take one trip a year and then you can have a little bit smaller house, but you can still have the.

Lisa Holtan: And then they can generally can kind of come to an agreement and compromise. Um, but I think writing down what it is you want really gets them out of their head and puts it into the paper and then asking them to listen objectively and take their emotions out of it really helps the couples realize that it’s not about the other person.

Lisa Holtan: So for example, if my husband says, um, he wants a big house with a pool, it’s not about me denying that. It’s about. The things that he thinks will bring him joy. He loves to swim. He loves to be outside. Well, how can we come together and enjoy that together?

Eric Brotman: This is an incredibly simple [00:12:00] exercise and also an incredibly difficult one simultaneously.

Eric Brotman: It’s simple in its mechanics, it’s difficult and it’s in its actual, um, in its actual delivery. I would think that you’re writing down what’s important to you would be something. I think all of us could. Um, I would think on, on a, on a whim, um, but then creating that open, that open opportunity to, to share and to remove the emotional baggage.

Eric Brotman: That’s, that’s a heavier lift. That’s not easy. Do you find, do you find most of the couples who work with you, um, that there’s one party who really wants this and the others maybe being dragged along to work with you, or do you think most of the time both folks are like, yeah, this, this will be good.

Lisa Holtan: Um, most of them are like type a that you said where one really wants to do this.

Lisa Holtan: And the other one is kind of getting dragged along. Um, but generally after the first couple of sessions than the person being dragged along is like, yeah, okay. I can see how we need this. Like, [00:13:00] it’s kind of sees the light that this is going to help. Um, it also really helps if people can dig down deep into why they want to spend money on those things.

Lisa Holtan: When I ask people right away, like what do you, what would you spend your money on? A lot of people right away will just say things like, I want a cabin. I want boats. I want like a snowmobile. I live in Wisconsin. So people here snowmobile and cabin and boat. Um, you know, I want a big house with a, with a jacuzzi, things like that.

Lisa Holtan: Well then why do you want that? Why do you want that boat? And if it’s because your neighbor has it, that’s not a reason that is not a reason for you to have that because we’re not about keeping up with the Joneses. We’re about doing what’s best for our family. So you really have to look deeper into why you want to spend the money on that item as well.

Eric Brotman: I think what we’re really talking about here is, is foundational behavioral finance. Yes know [00:14:00] all the, all the types of baggage that we have around money. And we do every, every adult person has learned habits and learned lessons about money. Rarely in school or in any actual personal financial literacy type of way, but they’ve watched their parents and they’ve watched their parents argue about why one of them spent so much money on XYZ or, or, or they watch their parents not spend anything because they were squirreling it away for a rainy day.

Eric Brotman: And then they died three weeks after they retired and never had the rainy day or there there’s just so much of that. And we bring it to them. We bring it to a marriage, we bring it to a partnership. Where we’ve both watched your both spouses have watched their parents make often some challenging decisions.

Eric Brotman: Some of them do a great job, thankfully, but a lot of them make bad decisions. And a lot of times it’s, it’s toxic. And then people don’t talk about money freely. Like, did you grow up in a household where your parents talked openly about personal finance, about their financials? Did you grow up in that kind of household?

Lisa Holtan: Oh [00:15:00] no. You didn’t talk about money? No, no, no.

Eric Brotman: Okay. And so let’s think about why that would be, why is money taboo? People will talk about their colonoscopy before they’ll talk about their, their investment portfolio. Why is that? Not to get graphic, but you know, why don’t, why is it taboo?

Lisa Holtan: Yeah, I think money is taboo because people tie their worthiness to money.

Lisa Holtan: So they feel that if someone makes more money than. They must be more worthy or more deserving of that money. And I’m not for some reason or, um, you know, if I, all of a sudden get this big, huge raise, that means that I’m worthy of that. But my coworker didn’t, they’re not worthy of it. Basically all Americans seem to tie their worth to money, which is part of the problem.

Lisa Holtan: Right? We kind of have to cut that cord because you are a worthy human being, no matter how much money you make or don’t [00:16:00] make, um, and you can choose to make more money if that’s what you want to do. But you first have to realize that your self-worth does not come from what that paycheck says.

Eric Brotman: You just called out Americans for something and I’m in complete agreement with you.

Eric Brotman: No, no, no. We, we, we are, we’re a spoiled lot for the most part. And, and you call it on Americans in, in, in inner generalities. Of course there are exceptions who tie their worth to their income. I’m going to add on a couple things and get your perspective on them. One of them is whenever you read an article in the news and journalism or whatever, When they say the richest states where the richest counties or the richest X, what they’re talking about is gross income.

Eric Brotman: Not necessarily what what’s created out of net worth. It’s always bothered me. That income is, is somehow, um, is somehow linked to wealth. It’s not behavior creates wealth income, right? It’s if you make more money, it’s easier to build. Well, But if you spend more than you [00:17:00] make, it doesn’t matter how much you make another thing about Americans.

Eric Brotman: In my opinion, is we, we are, we tie our identity inextricably to our occupation. If someone says, you know, Lisa, who are you? You know, are you first going to come up with a, um, I’m a wife, I’m a mother. I’m a volunteer. I’m a, I’m a coach. I’m a, you’ve got all of these different hats that you wear. I’m a daughter, I’m all.

Eric Brotman: Most of us say, oh, I’m an accountant, I’m an architect. And so then we, we help folks figure out what retirement looks like. And of course, you know, I encourage people not to retire in the traditional sense, which is disappearing. But if you tie your identity to what you do for a living and then you don’t do it for a living, you’ve literally just given up your identity.

Eric Brotman: Correct. And if you tie your worth to how much you make and you stop making money, do you become worthless?

Lisa Holtan: Correct. That is the question.

Eric Brotman: I mean, I certainly don’t think so, but it sounds like, it sounds like, [00:18:00] you know, your, your generalization, which I tend to, I tend to again agree with is that people tie their, their worthiness to their income and they are constantly keeping up with the Joneses is not good.

Eric Brotman: I mean, you mentioned, you mentioned Wisconsin. There’s, there’s an adage in Texas and we’re in Maryland. So I’m allowed to, to bash Texas anytime I want to, but in Texas, it’s called big hat, no cattle. You know, it’s kind of like when you look at somebody’s Facebook profile, they are the happiest people who have the best life of everyone you’ve ever seen.

Eric Brotman: And that’s because that’s what they chose to snap and put on their, you know, big hat. No cattle is, I’ve got fancy cars and fancy clothes and fancy whatever, but I don’t have a pot to piss in, so to speak.

Lisa Holtan: Right. And that’s, and that’s where I talk a lot with my clients on priorities. Um, and just really trying to figure out, you know, what are your top three priorities that you want to save your money for, or spend your money on?

Lisa Holtan: Um, because again, continuing to go to [00:19:00] target to buy your 15th pair of black shoes will not make you any happier than the 14th pair did. So stop buying the black shoes in order to like make yourself happier or to make yourself, you know, feel better. That’s not what it’s going to do once you can release your self worth that’s tied to the money and how much money you make that is when like true abundance can come about. Cause that’s when you can really look at your finances objectively with the help of somebody else and really see like, what are the priorities? Where do we want to save and spend money? What, what will happen when we, you know, retire?

Lisa Holtan: Um, and, and how, what will that look like? But so many people work, you know, for 30, 40 years and they don’t do anything fun. So to speak, they’re kind of crappy. And then they retire in the traditional sense. And then they just like sit around because you’re right. They are so tied to what I was. I was that accountant.

Lisa Holtan: I [00:20:00] was that architect. Well now what are you right now? They think now I’m nothing. And now my pot of money is dwindling. And then. You know, crazy thoughts in their head. Like, I can’t spend any money. I have to save, I can’t move. I can’t travel. And I’m 67 and I can’t do anything. And it’s like, is that really how you want to live your life?

Lisa Holtan: No, nobody wants to live their life like that. So we, we need to stop, stop the, the thinking that our self-worth is all tied into what we do and how much money we make. I mean, when I owned the gym, you could just see it in my town. I was like, oh yeah, if you meet new people, I own it. I’m the gym owner of Bodyworks.

Lisa Holtan: Oh, wow. Like that is so you must be amazing. That’s so awesome. That’s what they’d say to me. And I think in my head, amazing. Anyone can open a gym. Really? It’s not really that hard. You just need some money to put down, honestly. But now when I meet. And I’m like, oh yeah, I’m like a money mindset coach.

Lisa Holtan: They’re like, what? Like, what is that?

Eric Brotman: Right. Uh, we don’t, we don’t want any of that. We’d rather have the gym. Thank you.

Lisa Holtan: So even how [00:21:00] you treat people, um, Americans are different. They treat people differently kind of based on what you do, which again, that’s why Americans tie their worth to their job and to how much money they make, which is where we kind of need to cut that cord.

Eric Brotman: So. Uh, extrapolate that that’s also why we have, uh, an entire nation of people taking out unsustainable student loans to get degrees they don’t necessarily need because they are jobs that they think make them more worthy. Mm.

Lisa Holtan: Yes. I just actually went to a, um, college seminar because I have a senior in high school right now.

Lisa Holtan: So we’re looking at all of that. And, um, some of the degrees that you can. Is quite amazing. I’m like, what do you do with like a Russian literature four-year degree, seriously. Like, I don’t understand how that could help you in any field of study, unless you’re going to. Like going to, I don’t know, write books maybe on that or going to get your doctorate or something in that, but really I [00:22:00] think, yeah, kids need to look at, and parents need to help them understand that it’s not necessary to spend all this money to get a degree, to then go and get a job that let’s be real.

Lisa Holtan: You’ll probably change careers probably five to seven times in their lifetime. And there are jobs coming out that, you know, aren’t even thought of. Right. So it’s always good to continue your education, but also at what cost. So, you know, parents and kids need to look at that.

Eric Brotman: You have a senior, I have a sixth grader.

Eric Brotman: I’m already in a panic. So, but, but you know, it’s true there. The, some of these degrees are they’re esoteric and I’m a product of a liberal arts degree. So, you know, I like like most great financial advisors. I have a degree in 18th century, um, romantic poetry. I’m not making this up. This is true. I studied Coleridge Wordsworth, Byron Blake, Shelley, [00:23:00] and Keith.

Eric Brotman: And then did a course on–

Lisa Holtan: You shouldn’t have to pay for that seriously.

Eric Brotman: Well, I, you know, I, I honestly believe that and I studied English and I studied psychology and I loved it. And I had a very broad base and I met amazing people and it was, it was a good experience for me. And it has led to doing things like podcasting and writing, and I’m using the English major every day.

Eric Brotman: Of course, I thought I was going to law school, like every other English major. You’re either going to write poetry under a tree or you’re going to law school, or you’re going to. And people would ask me, what are you going to do with an English degree? And I said, well, anything I want all communicate. And so, you know, Russian literature might be a little bit more difficult.

Eric Brotman: I, I know there’s, there’s folks out there who major in medieval studies and they either are one of the 10 professors in the country who do medieval studies or they’re working at the Renaissance festival. I mean, I don’t know what else to say, but, um, you use three words in your bio and you’re you have a great short biography. And I want to highlight these three words because I think they are about as powerful [00:24:00] as, as any three words, um, that I’ve seen on paper. One is happiness. One is abundance and one is freedom. And what’s lacking from that is riches, wealth, bling, any I’m being I’m being that way on purpose.

Eric Brotman: I’m deliberately saying, of course, that wouldn’t be in your bio, but. Happiness, abundance and freedom are, they’re loaded terms. Tell me why you chose those three, because you could have picked anything. Why those three?

Lisa Holtan: Yes. Because when I was talking to my clients, a lot of my entrepreneurial clients will come to me and say, I want to make a million dollars.

Lisa Holtan: Um, like for some reason, a million dollars is like, everyone’s word right now. I wanna make a million dollars. Like they somehow think that will, I don’t know, like open this opportunity gate for them or something, but when you really boil it down, the reason people want to make more money or want to have access to more money is because they want the freedom that they think it will allow for them.

Lisa Holtan: Or they want the happiness. They think it might allow for them. [00:25:00] Now, again, you have to be happy for. Before you can make a lot of money because however you are right now, say you win the lottery. You’re going to be that exact same person. You might be happy for a week or a month or maybe a year, but truly the person you truly are inside, it will still be there and come out.

Lisa Holtan: No matter if you win the lottery or not. So you need to be happy with yourself right now and learn how to be happy in your circumstances so that you can continue to grow. And be a more abundant person because abundance, isn’t just about money. It’s about having that freedom, that happiness, having, you know, the things that you want, the family and friends that you want in your circle so that you can truly live your best life.

Lisa Holtan: And that doesn’t mean a million dollars.

Eric Brotman: Yeah. I, I think it’s important not to quantify. Certainly you can’t quantify happiness. Um, I know some very, very happy people who are by no means wealthy humans. [00:26:00] And I know some really miserable rich people. I really do. And, and, and I, I think there’s a definite disconnect. I totally agree with you.

Eric Brotman: And I think it really is about freedom. It really is about freedom. It’s, it’s being able to do maybe not everything you want to do, but to do the things that are most important. Right. Um, and whether that’s philanthropy, whether it’s family, whether it’s education, whether it’s travel, whether it’s entertainment, um, freedom matters and, and, and it’s much worse uh, I think to be, um, older and struggling with that than it is to be younger and struggling at that. I’ve, I’ve often said that to be young and broke is an inconvenience, to be old and broke is a tragedy. Correct. And it’s B it’s because the abundance mentality goes away. As you have a less. Timeframe in front of you or earning capacity or ability in front of you?

Eric Brotman: I think it starts to get really scary. I think when people give up their paychecks, um, in a traditional retirement scenario and [00:27:00] they suddenly have to live on their nest egg and they’re concerned about, um, you know, outliving their money. I think there’s very few things scarier than outliving your money and going from I’m okay to, I’m not.

Lisa Holtan: Yes. I agree with that.

Eric Brotman: So the, the one fundamental question, if there was one question. That we get asked more as financial advisers than any other question. It’s the simplest question in the world. Am I going to be okay? Are we going to be okay? And that’s really fundamentally, um, I think similar to what you’re doing is helping people understand number one, that yes, you can do things to make sure you’re okay.

Eric Brotman: But none of us want an okay life. You know, we all want to exquisite and extraordinary. I hope. So th this has been great. I, first of all, I love your show. Um, and I love the money mindset piece, and I want people to check you out. How can, how can our listeners learn more about you?

Lisa Holtan: Yes, I would love if your listeners would listen [00:28:00] to episode number 37 of the High Vibe Money Tribe podcast, how to create your dream life.

Lisa Holtan: It is a free master class I did a few months ago and I put it on my podcast. And what you really will learn is how to live your, how to start living your dream life. And we go through every single step. It’s about a little over a 30 minute podcast. So get out paper and pen, and you’re really going to deep dive into what your priorities are, what you want out of your life and how you can get there.

Lisa Holtan: So make sure you check that out and then you can always check me out on Instagram inspired and conscious coaching. Um, and I am doing some funny reels right now, so I’m in a reel challenge. So make sure you go and check out my reels.

Eric Brotman: Sounds great. So episode 37, how to create your dream life, if you will send us a link to that specific show, um, I will be glad to put it in the show notes and make sure people can find it as easily as possible.

Eric Brotman: I hope our listeners will check it out. Uh, we need an extra credit assignment and [00:29:00] that might be the extra credit assignment is to, is to do episode 37. Is there any other, any other one takeaway you want to make sure you leave our audience?

Lisa Holtan: Yeah. If you had nothing else out of this, I would say you and your partner sit down and start writing your lists out of what your priorities are and why do you really want to save or spend your money on X, Y, and Z, and try to narrow it down to just three things and try to have something that’s in common so you both can do those things together.

Eric Brotman: All right. Well, our listeners, like all students who are back to school now, um, our listeners hate homework. Both of these are extra credit assignments. None of them are homework. So, um, work with your partner or spouse and write down the things that are most important and sort of narrow down, get, find the commonality and narrow it down to three things or so, uh, and check out episode 37, Lisa, this has been great.

Eric Brotman: I could talk to you all day and I really, really appreciate you joining us today.

Lisa Holtan: Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. And [00:30:00] again, thank you, Eric for everything.

Eric Brotman: And we thank all of our listeners for listening to don’t retire, graduate. If you like, what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast and leave a review on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

Eric Brotman: Don’t retire, graduate as a book available in print, Kindle and audio formats, and a workbook with all the exercises you need to help build your own financial freedom plan. For more information, go to Brotmanmedia.com or buy your copy and leave us a review on Amazon. Please also check out our online financial literacy education courses at bfguniversity.com.

Eric Brotman: We’ll be back next week with another installment of office hours and in two weeks with another engaging guest. For now, this is your host, Eric Brotman reminding you, don’t retire, graduate.

Narrator: From this day forward, let us begin changing the way we view retirement. Today I implore you don’t retire, graduate! Visit our website at brotmanmedia.com to subscribe and please like us [00:31:00] and post comments on social media.

Narrator: Securities offered through Kestra investment services, LLC. Kestra I S member FINRA SIPC investment advisory services offered through Kestra advisory services, LLC. Kestra AS and affiliate of Kestra. I S Kestra IS and or Kestra AS are not affiliated with Brotman financial or any other entity discussed.